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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:55 pm 


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Tyjet wrote:
MJR wrote:
Has anyone managed to get full achievements on Deathsmiles 360 PAL version?

I still got few missing; 200k, 300k, true tyrant, distinguished angel and clear all maps on lvl3 (including EX) on 1.1

I did clear 1.1 but it did not give achievement - I wonder if you have to 1cc it?

200k and 300k I can probably get just by playing EX stage, but true tyrant and clear all maps on 1.1 in one credit seem to be bit much. 1.1 is not that hard, but tyrannosatan is taking a piss on hardest difficulty.

There was one achievement guide for cave games here, but they were all for japanese version - which has different achievements.


I don't have the PAL version, but achievements for all games should have the same requirements even though some of them may be missing from one game to another.

Did you change any of the game settings like setting the live to 5 or enemy damage to low? You won’t be able to unlock anything if you do so. You also can't use restarts.

The distinguished angel does not require you to 1cc and ex stage is not required. The Clear Deathsmiles Version 1.1 with all maps at Lv3 requires you to 1cc and ex stage is required. True tyrant is the hardest to get in the game so I recommend you leave that for last.


Thanks for reply; but I don't really trust that they are same.
I had not changed any game settings, so therefore I have no idea why distinguished angel achievement did not unlock. All I ever did was to use pause mode from time to time. I was also wondering that maybe I should play arcade version of 1.1, if it slows down more on PAL version. Could make things bit easier.

I'm not sure if I ever can get the true tyrant achievement, so I might just leave it at that. I read somewhere that very select few people ever got that one.


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:24 pm 


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MJR wrote:
I was also wondering that maybe I should play arcade version of 1.1, if it slows down more on PAL version. Could make things bit easier.

I'm not sure if I ever can get the true tyrant achievement, so I might just leave it at that. I read somewhere that very select few people ever got that one.


Were you doing the distinguished angel in MBL 1.1 or original 1.1? The achievement only can be unlocked in original 1.1. So to summarize:

distinguished angel = original 1.1
clear all maps on lvl3 (including EX) = original 1.1
true tyrant = MBL xbox360 or MBL arcade

The true tyrant requires the player to survive the EX stages at lvl999 all the way to the end without getting hit, which a lot people can't do. So leaving it alone can be an option. I've been working to get this achievement, but it's a huge learning curve going from lvl3 to lvl999.

Did they not incorporate the slowdown in either in MBL1.1 or original 1.1?
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:16 pm 


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Tyjet wrote:
MJR wrote:
I was also wondering that maybe I should play arcade version of 1.1, if it slows down more on PAL version. Could make things bit easier.

I'm not sure if I ever can get the true tyrant achievement, so I might just leave it at that. I read somewhere that very select few people ever got that one.


Were you doing the distinguished angel in MBL 1.1 or original 1.1? The achievement only can be unlocked in original 1.1. So to summarize:

distinguished angel = original 1.1
clear all maps on lvl3 (including EX) = original 1.1
true tyrant = MBL xbox360 or MBL arcade

The true tyrant requires the player to survive the EX stages at lvl999 all the way to the end without getting hit, which a lot people can't do. So leaving it alone can be an option. I've been working to get this achievement, but it's a huge learning curve going from lvl3 to lvl999.

Did they not incorporate the slowdown in either in MBL1.1 or original 1.1?


in original 1.1, but no luck.
According to this link, you can actually die in the first six stages but not after that, when going for true tyrant: http://www.trueachievements.com/a147214 ... vement.htm

still, feels daunting to me, but at the same time I really want it..

I did read somewhere that arcade mode would have more appropriate slowdown in PAL release, but I honestly have no idea if this is true.

thanks for any help, always appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:51 pm 


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PAL version has accurate slowdown, and IIRC the US version was patched to fix that issue as well.

I'm a little surprised to hear that you're still working on the Bloody Jitterbug achievement, Tyjet - how's your progress on that?
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:22 am 


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MJR wrote:
in original 1.1, but no luck.
According to this link, you can actually die in the first six stages but not after that, when going for true tyrant: link

thanks for any help, always appreciated!


You're welcome. Correct, you can get hit in the first 6 stages. I was refering to the Ice palace, Canyon, and castle.

CStarFlare wrote:

I'm a little surprised to hear that you're still working on the Bloody Jitterbug achievement, Tyjet - how's your progress on that?


I've been off and on with it because I have been casually playing other games and it just fell 2nd on priorities. A while back, I've been practicing each stage separetely to memorize patterns and ideal places to power up. I finally made the choice to go to arcade mode rather than 360 since the slowdown is more occuring in boss fights (not playing for score). Again, another learning curve because the slowdown in ice palace, canyon, and castle differs in arcade.

I can go through the first 6 stages, ice palace, canyon, castle, and ballroom just fine. The big problems are the canyon boss, and the beginning part of jitterbug's attack. Can't seem to find a method of using no bombs against those two.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:05 pm 


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MJR wrote:
I still got few missing; 200k, 300k, true tyrant, distinguished angel and clear all maps on lvl3 (including EX) on 1.1

I did clear 1.1 but it did not give achievement - I wonder if you have to 1cc it?


Don't know about Distinguished Angel, but the Deathsmiles Virtuoso (1.1 Lv3 EX 1cc) achievement has to be done in Play mode, not Score Attack. Try to do a 1cc in Play to cover all bases - I think the corresponding achievement in the JP version required a 1cc.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:27 pm 


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deexor wrote:
MJR wrote:
I still got few missing; 200k, 300k, true tyrant, distinguished angel and clear all maps on lvl3 (including EX) on 1.1

I did clear 1.1 but it did not give achievement - I wonder if you have to 1cc it?


Don't know about Distinguished Angel, but the Deathsmiles Virtuoso (1.1 Lv3 EX 1cc) achievement has to be done in Play mode, not Score Attack. Try to do a 1cc in Play to cover all bases - I think the corresponding achievement in the JP version required a 1cc.


Thanks, now I got it!!

Unfortunately, though, I have the same problem with Hades Castle as I do with arcade mode: it just wipes the floor with me when the suicide bullets are on. In MBL1.1 I didn't have any problem on Hades Castle at all (but I didn't play at lvl999 either).

so by this far; I got only four achievements left:
200 millionaire
300 millionaire
Deathsmiles Virtuoso
True Tyrant

Looking at the highscore tables here, it seems that only few people are able to get these at all. I guess there is nothing else left to do than use the practise mode.. perhaps I should switch to other Cave games for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:43 am 


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Better late than never, I'm finally putting some time into DS. I figured it would only be fair considering what it ended up costing me.


Got the basics of the scoring system down and clocked an easy (no suicide bullets) 1cc with a horribly shoddy score of ~115mil. This is despite having pulled off a few recharges and almost no-missing up until Jitterbug. Basically it just seems like I'm not getting nearly as much out of my fevers as I should. I've checked out a few videos of the game, and almost anyone else seems to be able to milk the stages for points to a much higher degree than what I'm doing now, so can anyone help me figure out what I'm doing wrong?

Basically I do this - activate powerup in an area with many enemies coming up, kill them with [what I assumed to be] the appropriate shot type to get the biggest medals and let them break if possible to pick up items that add to the overall counter, get it up to fever and continue doing the same, except with gold crowns.

But it seems like I can potentially get much more out of powerup mode. Watching the STG Weekly episode, Tyjet (I think?) mentions in passing that the preferred shot types per enemy changes in this mode, and then again in fever mode. Does anyone have the lowdown on this, or at least some basic pointers for common enemy types? It feels like it should be easy to just experiment, but I'm not really seeing any changes in powerup, and in fever the screen gets so clotted with crowns that it's really impossible for me to make out any possible difference.
It seems lock shot starts playing a bigger role once you go into powerup, or are people just using it to control the countdown speed of the counter? Also, the familair seems to have an important effect, which I can't find documented anywhere. Most obviously, holding the fire button (as Rosa) seems to be able to suck a stream of skull items from certain huge enemies without killing them while in powerup mode, but I'm sure there's more to this. Help me out here :)


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:40 am 


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Thx for necrobumping this, Sumez :D I just recently managed to get my first 1CC in DS and I'm also trying to improve my score. Though I'm way behind you. I'm still only doing eight digit scores :cry: I realize not going death mode won't render any humongous scores but I believe I should be able to do a whole lot better than this.

Btw, do you play PCB or Xbox version? Jitterbug shoots an extra barrier of bullets during the first stage on the PCB version that doesn't seem to be on the Xbox. Really messes with my zen :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:07 am 


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No probs :) Playing PCB. I played around a bit with the 360 version to get the gist of the score system when it came out in Europe, but never really got into it, I was handicapped by a horrible controller at the time.
Not really having any problems with Jitterbug's first stage, but when he starts flying around leaving behind the long shots that go in all directions, that's when I usually get trapped and take a hit, not wanting to bomb. Seems like that should be pretty simple to avoid once I get a grasp of the pattern though.

edit: Turns out Jitterbug is a much faster fight if you just use lock shot on him. Don't know why I didn't think of this.


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:41 am 


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Ooh Deathsmiles!

Sumez wrote:
Basically I do this - activate powerup in an area with many enemies coming up, kill them with [what I assumed to be] the appropriate shot type to get the biggest medals and let them break if possible to pick up items that add to the overall counter, get it up to fever and continue doing the same, except with gold crowns.

If you aren't already, what you want to do is activate powerup when there are a lot of bullets on the screen. When you activate powerup, all the bullets on the screen transform into gold crowns, which you can then allow to hit the ground and break up into silver crowns and skulls for a hefty kickstart on your way to fever mode. That being said, it's also important to use powerup when there are a lot of enemies worth killing coming up, as you said you are. There's another thing you can do to squeeze out the points, but I'll talk about that in a minute.

Quote:
Watching the STG Weekly episode, Tyjet (I think?) mentions in passing that the preferred shot types per enemy changes in this mode, and then again in fever mode.

Kind of. The preferred shot types per enemy stay the same during power up mode, but during fever mode the rules change a little. At the risk of the details sounding confusing, the reason the preferred shot for some enemies change in fever mode is because, during fever mode, every crown or skull item dropped by enemies become gold crowns. This means the quantity matters more than the quality. So let's say for example an enemy drops 10 silver crowns when destroyed with one shot, and 15 skulls when destroyed with a different shot. The 10 silver crowns = 50 points in total, while 15 skulls = 15 points in total, thus destroying the enemy with the one shot is more beneficial when building up the counter or in powerup trying to reach fever mode. However, once you reach fever mode, all point items dropped become gold crowns. Therefore, the different shot now becomes the better option, as it would drop 15 skulls (which become 15 gold crowns in fever) as opposed to the one shot which would drop 10 silver crowns (which becomes 10 gold crowns in fever).

I hope that description made sense, but I apologize if it doesn't. Basically, in fever mode, it's quantity over quality.

Quote:
Does anyone have the lowdown on this, or at least some basic pointers for common enemy types?

There is a chart somewhere (in French I think, though) that shows which enemies are most efficient to kill with what, and which enemies have different preferred shots during Fever mode, but I don't have it, sorry. Maybe someone else will come along with it?

Quote:
It seems lock shot starts playing a bigger role once you go into powerup, or are people just using it to control the countdown speed of the counter? Also, the familair seems to have an important effect, which I can't find documented anywhere. Most obviously, holding the fire button (as Rosa) seems to be able to suck a stream of skull items from certain huge enemies without killing them while in powerup mode, but I'm sure there's more to this. Help me out here :)

Lock shot: A little of both, really. Lock shot is the preferred shot to use against some enemies, so it's used to get more point items to drop. The increased countdown speed can also be beneficial if you're planning to perform a recharge and need to lower your counter to a certain amount quicker.

Familiar: The familiar's role in scoring is quite important. This is the thing I mentioned earlier, about another thing to use to squeeze out points. The shot that comes out of your familiar when you hold the fire button down will, during powerup, milk skulls out of enemies for as long as they're alive and being hit by it (Note: Casper is unique in that the shot her familiar uses to milk is actually the one that comes out when just tapping the fire button). A good strategy for milking skulls out of enemies is to position yourself and the familiar so that the familiar's shot is hitting the enemy, but the shot coming from the girl herself is not. That way, you can milk enemies for longer and thus get more points out of them (this is especially important for Rosa because her laser beam thing is extremely powerful). This is most likely what you're talking about with that "sucking a stream of skull items" part.

Stompp wrote:
Thx for necrobumping this, Sumez :D I just recently managed to get my first 1CC in DS and I'm also trying to improve my score. Though I'm way behind you. I'm still only doing eight digit scores :cry: I realize not going death mode won't render any humongous scores but I believe I should be able to do a whole lot better than this.

Btw, do you play PCB or Xbox version? Jitterbug shoots an extra barrier of bullets during the first stage on the PCB version that doesn't seem to be on the Xbox. Really messes with my zen :evil:


You can still get some decent scores without death mode, at least. My PB without death mode or Canyon is 250 million. As for the extra bullets from Jitterbug thing, I don't think that's correct. What you might be seeing is a big wall of bullets that Jitterbug will only fire if you get too close to him during the first phase. It's a devastating wall and I'm not sure if anyone besides Casper is fast enough to move around it before it gets too big. The solution would be to just keep your distance from him. If I'm wrong though, then please tell me more about these extra bullets.


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:53 am 


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Sumez wrote:
No probs :) Playing PCB.

Realized that when I spotted your DS in the PCB-get-thread :)

I need to work on my consistency. I can do all stages on lvl 3 - just not in the same run. On a good day I get to Jitterbug with 4 lives and 3 bombs. Usually blown him to kingdom come since I haven't managed wear him down without bombs (even with lock shot). And what's left should be enough for downing TS unless I screw up :roll:

ATM I'm doing 3-1(1), 3-2(1), 2-1(2), 1-2(3), 1-1(3), 2-2(2) on the first stages. Basically only bumping my score on the n-2 stages. Recharges I haven't even begun to fathom yet :(

*sigh*
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:00 am 


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HarryKoakuma wrote:
What you might be seeing is a big wall of bullets that Jitterbug will only fire if you get too close to him during the first phase. It's a devastating wall and I'm not sure if anyone besides Casper is fast enough to move around it before it gets too big. The solution would be to just keep your distance from him. If I'm wrong though, then please tell me more about these extra bullets.

Yes, it's the wall of bullets I'm referring to. Gotta check if it is the proximity, as you mention, that triggers it. Thanks you :D


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:15 pm 


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HarryKoakuma wrote:
Quote:
Does anyone have the lowdown on this, or at least some basic pointers for common enemy types?

There is a chart somewhere (in French I think, though) that shows which enemies are most efficient to kill with what, and which enemies have different preferred shots during Fever mode, but I don't have it, sorry. Maybe someone else will come along with it?

Here's what I used. I think it might be slightly more complete than the french image that's floating around. Google Translate should be pefectly understandable on that page if you need it.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:35 pm 


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HarryKoakuma wrote:
Ooh Deathsmiles!
If you aren't already, what you want to do is activate powerup when there are a lot of bullets on the screen. When you activate powerup, all the bullets on the screen transform into gold crowns, which you can then allow to hit the ground and break up into silver crowns and skulls for a hefty kickstart on your way to fever mode.

I tend to do this, but it's rarely of much use. When the shots are all over the screen, most of the crowns will usually be picked up automatically before they are able to break, so in my experience, it's more important to do it on the right parts of a stage. On the final stage it can make quite an impact to though. Forest stage has enough bullets for it to play a nice role on well. On volcano it's completely useless :) You just want to milk those rocks.

Quote:
the reason the preferred shot for some enemies change in fever mode is because, during fever mode, every crown or skull item dropped by enemies become gold crowns. This means the quantity matters more than the quality. So let's say for example an enemy drops 10 silver crowns when destroyed with one shot, and 15 skulls when destroyed with a different shot.

That makes perfect sense, didn't think about it this way. My problem remains though, that it's really impossible for me to make out which spawns the highest amount of items amidst all the action. I'd love some guidelines/examples of enemies where the preferred shot changes, if anyone knows them off hand.

Quote:
There is a chart somewhere (in French I think, though) that shows which enemies are most efficient to kill with what, and which enemies have different preferred shots during Fever mode, but I don't have it, sorry. Maybe someone else will come along with it?

I remembered seeing this chart years ago, but every link to it nowadays is dead. Some serious detective work finally found myself a cached copy though, and decided to save it to my own server before it's gone forever, here it is:

Spoiler: show
Image


It only lists the preferred methods in normal mode though, so there's no indication of how many "lesser items" are spawned by using the "wrong" shots. It does say something about lock shot on three enemy types though, I don't know if that relates specifically to this?


Quote:
The shot that comes out of your familiar when you hold the fire button down will, during powerup, milk skulls out of enemies for as long as they're alive and being hit by it (Note: Casper is unique in that the shot her familiar uses to milk is actually the one that comes out when just tapping the fire button). A good strategy for milking skulls out of enemies is to position yourself and the familiar so that the familiar's shot is hitting the enemy, but the shot coming from the girl herself is not.

This is pretty much what I assumed was happening, but it's really good to get the details summed up. I've only used it on larger enemies, but from what you're describing it should work with smaller types as well? I'm guessing popcorn enemies die before it manages to have any effect at all(?), but what's the dividing line? Is it worth using on smaller enemies with multiple hitpoints, such as the sheep or pigmen, or should I stick to using the lockshot on those?
It's baffling that this stuff about the familiar shots or the preferred shot changing in fewer mode isn't even touched upon in any of the guides I can find. It seems pretty damn important. :P

Quote:
What you might be seeing is a big wall of bullets that Jitterbug will only fire if you get too close to him during the first phase. It's a devastating wall and I'm not sure if anyone besides Casper is fast enough to move around it before it gets too big.
That killed me the first time I saw it, but subsequently I've been able to slip around it with Rosa when I was aware of it. I had not idea it was based on proximity, that's good to know. :)


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:45 pm 


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Stompp wrote:
I need to work on my consistency. I can do all stages on lvl 3 - just not in the same run. On a good day I get to Jitterbug with 4 lives and 3 bombs. Usually blown him to kingdom come since I haven't managed wear him down without bombs (even with lock shot). And what's left should be enough for downing TS unless I screw up :roll:

ATM I'm doing 3-1(1), 3-2(1), 2-1(2), 1-2(3), 1-1(3), 2-2(2) on the first stages.


All the initial stages are honestly pretty easy on rank 3. If you can 1cc the game, you should be able to no-miss all of them without much trouble. I only do 2 of them on rank 2 to avoid "death mode". The real trouble of course comes when you start getting the suicide bullets. Even playing two stages of the first stages with those isn't that big of an issue (I probably wouldn't want them on the volcano though...), but it drastically ramps up the difficulty of the final stage, even without doing the EX stage. I think my next goal should probably be a death level 1 1cc, but I'm not sure how much it would help my score. Seems the big points not gotten through feber is almost exclusively in ramping up to the highest "death" level and no-missing all of canyon and hades...


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:23 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I tend to do this, but it's rarely of much use. When the shots are all over the screen, most of the crowns will usually be picked up automatically before they are able to break, so in my experience, it's more important to do it on the right parts of a stage. On the final stage it can make quite an impact to though. Forest stage has enough bullets for it to play a nice role on well. On volcano it's completely useless :) You just want to milk those rocks.


Yeah, that may happen. Sometimes you just gotta try to stay away if possible, like if the bullets are mostly on the right side of the screen, try to get yourself up in the upper-left corner of the screen to minimize the amount of gold crowns that she sucks in before they break. And yeah on Volcano just go for the rocks really. Probably the single greatest source of points outside of Death mode.

Quote:
That makes perfect sense, didn't think about it this way. My problem remains though, that it's really impossible for me to make out which spawns the highest amount of items amidst all the action. I'd love some guidelines/examples of enemies where the preferred shot changes, if anyone knows them off hand.

Hm, let me think... the green snake-like enemies in the Forest are definitely an example. When you're normal, you want to kill them with the regular shot (not laser), and during fever mode you'll want to be killing them with lock shot. Technically the red/green eyeball popcorn enemies also prefer lock shot during fever mode, however it's pretty much always inconvenient to take them out with it, so using regular shot is the more practical option.

One thing I'd like to point out about that French chart is the two Lake Shore train enemies that have the Lock shot note on their listings. It's best to kill them with lock shot always, however using laser also produces a decent amount of silver crowns as well. Basically just do not kill them with the regular shot because then they just drop a few skulls and that's no good.

Quote:
I've only used it on larger enemies, but from what you're describing it should work with smaller types as well? I'm guessing popcorn enemies die before it manages to have any effect at all(?), but what's the dividing line? Is it worth using on smaller enemies with multiple hitpoints, such as the sheep or pigmen, or should I stick to using the lockshot on those?
It's baffling that this stuff about the familiar shots or the preferred shot changing in fewer mode isn't even touched upon in any of the guides I can find. It seems pretty damn important. :P

It can work on smaller enemies but often not to any significant effect. You should focus instead on using their preferred shot to kill them so that they drop crowns. Or, perhaps a mix of both if it's convenient, fire off the familiar's projectile and then quickly switch over to lock shot for example, milking a few skulls and then having them die with their preferred shot, a strategy like that can work sometimes.

Quote:
That killed me the first time I saw it, but subsequently I've been able to slip around it with Rosa when I was aware of it. I had not idea it was based on proximity, that's good to know. :)

Yeah. In truth he *probably* uses it on his second and fourth attacks as well (any attack besides the one where he flies around the screen) but I've never found myself in proximity to him during those. Also good to know for the future is that he doesn't have that wall attack during his Death Mode Level 3 only phase, so you can get close to him if you want to during that.

Sumez wrote:
I think my next goal should probably be a death level 1 1cc, but I'm not sure how much it would help my score. Seems the big points not gotten through feber is almost exclusively in ramping up to the highest "death" level and no-missing all of canyon and hades...
It might not help your score at first, honestly. You'll be able to get more points during stages theoretically (each suicide bullet absorbed by the familiar counts as one point item) but if you have trouble surviving then you might have a hard time building up to fever mode to really capitalize on that, and more deaths means less of a clear bonus. However it's still good to learn to get used to Death mode in case you do someday want to push further and go to Canyon and all that. If you can manage to play well during Death mode, even without Canyon, it should improve your score noticeably.


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:27 am 


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Alright, had a couple more games yesterday, and this new knowledge improved my scores by around 50 mil, so that's good.

Bottom line, the stuff I was missing was:
1. Using the familiar to leech skulls from almost any non-popcorn enemy
2. Importance of the lock shot on certain enemies. Mostly on the forest stage and the final stage, but also the train track enemies on C-1.

Now I gotta work on those recharges. It's still not working too well for me.


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Death Smiles
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:17 pm 


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Stompp wrote:
HarryKoakuma wrote:
What you might be seeing is a big wall of bullets that Jitterbug will only fire if you get too close to him during the first phase. It's a devastating wall and I'm not sure if anyone besides Casper is fast enough to move around it before it gets too big. The solution would be to just keep your distance from him. If I'm wrong though, then please tell me more about these extra bullets.

Yes, it's the wall of bullets I'm referring to. Gotta check if it is the proximity, as you mention, that triggers it. Thanks you :D

Right you are :D Thank you! Using lock shot on Jitterbug and keeping my distance I've even managed to down him w/o losing a life. Soo different :mrgreen:
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I still believe I'm the suckiest DS player on this side of the North pole :lol:


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