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 Post subject: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:09 pm 


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It must be obvious for Nintendo that long-time buyers of games consoles are not going to en masse make "NX" their new toy of choice. All the while, Nintendo must know that the very same lot, ostensibly tired of decreasingly characterful consoles, keep buying them nevertheless (even if the youth of today is not interested, it's the now when former youth can afford them earlier in their lifecycle).
So, do you think Nintendo has any idea who the target demographic of "NX" should be?
I think one box can be ticked safely - it will be sold as a piece of hardware (if only for sentimental reasons).
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:42 pm 


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Nintendo has traditionally appealed well to parents of younger children. There is nothing wrong with this, how many people now in their mid-30's grew up on NES/SNES/N64? (I did).
Nintendo should play to their strengths, that being their main IP's like Zelda, Mario, Metroid, etc.... along with perhaps a more traditional style console that is easy to develop for. While Nintendo has for 20 years now been at the forefront of weird controllers and "new ways to play" it's clear that, right now at least, the gaming public at large isn't that interested. If Nintendo ever wants a foothold into 3rd party titles on their new system, then the hardware has to be similar to the other 2 big players so that the big CoD/Battlefield/Sports, etc... titles can be ported. Without 3rd party support, Nintendo risks becoming late 90s era Sega.

The Wii-U wasn't doomed by it's odd controller, IMO. It was doomed by dismal 3rd party support and horrendous marketing, the 50 million grandmothers who bought the original Wii had no idea there was a new system out because it had the same damn name. I think that even just a different name would have doubled sales. While I don't like publishers like Activision and EA.... console makers need them to make their consoles a success, most gamers out there lock themselves into a single console per generation, so they choose the system that has the widest variety of titles. I'm willing to bet that nearly every Wii-U owner also owns either a PS4 or an Xbone. (I for instance, have all 3).

If I were a parent, I would absolutely have my kids playing Mario and Kirby vs Dark Souls and God of War.... and I think most parents my age likely feel similarly. I don't think the NX will doom Nintendo, but if it does... would it be a bad thing if Nintendo became a developer/publisher only and release on Sony/MS consoles or even PC? Maybe not....(imagine a remake of Mario 64 with amazing visuals and the ability to run at 144fps on PC?)

Having said all this, I think Nintendo management has no idea what to do, and they are acting randomly. If you haven't read "Console Wars" (https://www.amazon.ca/Console-Wars-Nint ... 0062276697) I suggest you do so, it's fascinating, especially if you grew up during the NES/SNES generation, but what's more, it goes into depth on the corporate culture at Nintendo, and shows how nearly everyone who works there has never, ever worked at another video game related company. I don't know if the culture has changed since, but if it hasn't... well that explains a lot.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:42 pm 


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Nintendo lost the casual market to smartphones and honestly the casual market was happy with the Wii - it did what they wanted. They left it to rot for about 18 months before the Wii U came out. The Wii U branding was a disaster and it being on the same technical level as existing consoles was a bit fat nope for 3rd parties.

Nintendo will always shift units on the strength of their IPs... but Wii U didn't get that right. No Zelda (HD reissues of games that ran natively on the Wii do not count!) and no Metroid. Star Fox left far too late and saddled with an unnecessary control scheme. F-Zero nowhere to be seen. Splatoon was sort of a right step but lauched light on content and desperately short of single player action.

I'm interested as to what the NX is, but if it's some mobile hybrid that will just attempt to bring back that casual market? Nah. I want them to release a machine that'll make Sony and Microsoft shit themselves. I want them to be people's main console again and not a sideshow for a handful of strong exclusives. I also hope that if it's good, it'll be Wii U backwards compatible so I can play the 5 games that are exclusive and that I want to play (but am in no way paying £200 just to do so)!!
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:59 pm 


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I've never understood why for so long Nintendo post-SNES have been trying to be so original.
Sony didn't brainstorm more than two minutes in every new Playstation strategy meeting;
" hurr durr new console, moar power, put disc in and play, hurr durr, oh and don't forget the usual controller durr. "
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:09 pm 



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broken harbour wrote:
... the gaming public at large ...

I think the "public at large" has come to see "game consoles" as uni-taskers - they are actually shopping now for general digital entertainment media hubs that also support (on-line) game play (and Xbox One and PS4 have largely moved in this direction). I think we are talking about the same people who never saw a justification to purchase something like a 3DS/PS Vita because their all-in-one phone/portable-media-player served all their needs - "home game consoles" are in the process of suffering the same fate.
broken harbour wrote:
... 3rd party support ...

3rd parties will tend pursue the largest markets they can publish to, provided the access barriers aren't unreasonable. For the time being Nintendo doesn't have access to the quantity of general entertainment content to compete with existing services, nor do they have the means of forming a market with an exclusive audience (attractive to 3rd parties) that isn't already covered by other markets.
broken harbour wrote:
... I think Nintendo management has no idea what to do ...

I suspect that they decided sometime ago that they weren't interested in becoming a player in the general digital entertainment media market[1] but at the same time they are not ready to relinquish control over their primary distribution/deployment platform[2]. So they need to figure out how to sell their hardware to (and potentially get yet another recurring service fee out of) an audience who already committed to at least one general digital entertainment media hub and it's service. That isn't easy to pull off ... For the time being they seem to be going towards a tailored "The Lego Group" marketing model, i.e. keep the franchise(s) in the awareness of the "the public at large" through exposure via alternate digital media[3]. However Lego has been acquiring rights to media franchises other than their own - I would expect Nintendo to stick strictly to their own franchises. Also selling (quality/expensive) toy building blocks is probably different from selling electronic gaming hardware for exclusive digital games.

The most likely reaction from "the public at large"? "Why do I have to buy yet another plastic box - just publish it to the box that I already have - it's just a silly little game for crying out loud." - i.e. as far as they are concerned Nintendo should have just focused on publishing their franchises to other already existing entertainment services and abandoned the hardware business altogether.

[1] Probably because they don't want the core focus of their business shifting too much.
[2] Probably not comfortable with being too closely tied, being dependent on and being lead by independent service providers.
[3] This is the reason why I view Nintendo's (Android/iOS) efforts as a marketing move rather than "Nintendo is making games for the mobile market".


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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:20 pm 


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Cautiously optimistic, is my feeling.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:58 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:00 pm 


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I'm interested in seeing what it is, at least. I doubt that Nintendo's first-party output alone will be enough to make me want the system any time soon, even though their Wii U releases were surprisingly great (I didn't like anything they made for the Wii). Bayonetta 2 and The Wonderful 101 are what sold me on the Wii U, and they're probably not going to fund those types of games again considering how badly they sold.

I don't know what they can do to make a successful system at this point. I don't see them trying to compete with MS & Sony in the tech arms race, and they'll get killed again if they release another underpowered console with a gimmick. Maybe a handheld/console hybrid would be their best bet, but that kinda falls into the "underpowered console with a gimmick" category...
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:31 pm 


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Quote:
If Nintendo ever wants a foothold into 3rd party titles on their new system, then the hardware has to be similar to the other 2 big players so that the big CoD/Battlefield/Sports, etc... titles can be ported. Without 3rd party support, Nintendo risks becoming late 90s era Sega.


It's a huge mistake to think they can and should and are competing in the same space as Sony and Microsoft. Perhaps superficially they are, but not in any deep fundamental way.

Sony and Microsoft sell pricey last generation computer hardware at a loss. As huge conglomerates, they can do that forever at no risk. Nintendo, is always eight or so ET or Virtual Boy level boondoggles away from death. To compete head to head, they'd have to charge at least as much for their console as the others do. A console no one needs because they have three other options out there already (gotta count the PC ports).

Undercutting the competition by getting as close to $200 as possible is essential. Then they sell party games that appeal to young children and families that want to spend time together on the couch.

RPGs? Get a DS. Sports+racing+FPS enthusiasts? Get a PC or a black box. Card games? Go to https://play.duelyst.com/ on a modern browser on any thing that can spoof being Chrome.

The gruel is pretty thin. Personally, if they could unite their mobile and console libraries in a way that the console version can scale up, they would really be in a great place.

Xyga wrote:
I've never understood why for so long Nintendo post-SNES have been trying to be so original.
Sony didn't brainstorm more than two minutes in every new Playstation strategy meeting;
" hurr durr new console, moar power, put disc in and play, hurr durr, oh and don't forget the usual controller durr. "


Hey Nintendo brought back to life the analog joystick and brought us the novelty of having a map screen for the DS.

Sometimes they strike gold, other times they embarrass the crap out of themselves. I certainly had no idea the Wii with its 2 button stock TV remote controller and wiggle controls would become a big successful fad.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:57 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
The gruel is pretty thin. Personally, if they could unite their mobile and console libraries in a way that the console version can scale up, they would really be in a great place.


I agree, I would love to see this.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 pm 


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trap15 wrote:
Cautiously optimistic, is my feeling.

I feel this way too, because i think Nintendo knows that the WiiU, for whatever its strengths/solid titles, was a relative failure even vis a vis the Gamecube, let alone the Wii juggernaut.

They will be moving to correct the mistakes made with the WiiU, and I hope this means keeping interface gimmicks to a minimum.

However, you can tell that the company is extremely apprehensive about the new hardware. They are afraid to say anything about it (though E3 might prove me wrong). This contrasts with my memories of the confidence with the Wii and DS. Again, I hope being in a "cornered animal" position forces them to be both daring and business-savvy.

HydrogLox wrote:
[3] This is the reason why I view Nintendo's (Android/iOS) efforts as a marketing move rather than "Nintendo is making games for the mobile market".


Exactly this. Nintendo's mobile efforts (plus a theme park down the road?) are very much efforts to keep brand recognition fresh and to promote sales of Nintendo hardware and software. They are not ends in and of themselves, but rather means to an end. The idea is to get people interested in and excited about NX (and MH?) products. Amiibo was a test-run into this. I am sure they made some money fooling people into buying hugely-expensive toy models, but there are probably more sustainable ways to penetrate larger markets - like apps.

In the end, though, it will be about the games. I feel like the WiiU received Nintendo's B-grade effort for its flagship franchises - along with next to no new IPs. The NX's success will be dependent on how much Nintendo can demonstrate that its software is of such a high quality that you simply need to buy a Nintendo console to play it.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:53 pm 


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I know the primary reason they don't wanna say anything about it, is they don't wanna completely kill off U sales immediately.

But by this point its become a pretty good marketing gimmick.

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(The absolute most bonkers one I heard is "they're going back to cartridges". Completely absurd, you're gonna find Bigfoot before that'd happen.. and yet, we can let insane people dream these insane dreams.)


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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:58 am 


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Nintendo needs to make the NX at least on PS4 or XBO level, maybe with a slightly higher amount of RAM (10-12 GB). They as well should use an X86 CPU and handle backward compatibility by emulation. A next-gen Nintendo system should be able to emulate even the Wii U.
Even now with Wii U, Nintendo has some disadvantage on hardware- while its Latte GPU is 50 MHz faster than the Xbox 360's Xenos and there is more usable RAM, Wii U loses in CPU speed.

When Microsoft had the 360 and Sony had PS3, Wii was comparable with the original Xbox. One thing you can give the Wii is that it has good backward compatibility with Gamecube, something that was sadly killed in the Wii U (which thankfully will play all original Wii games). Xbox 360's BC is sad, requiring MAME like drivers for every original Xbox game. Some good Xbox games fell through the cracks such as Spikeout Battlestreet. PS3 also has BC but only if yours is an early model.

If Nintendo does join Sega and SNK to indeed quit the hardware market, hopefully they make games for PS and Xbox series rather than concentrating on mobile. I fear Sony may be quitting the portable market after PSVita, sticking strictly to console. Mobile isn't helping much.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:18 am 


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Hard to be looking forward to something that there's no real information about.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:48 am 


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Very interested. It's kind of do or die for Nintendo right now, and although I've mentioned a million times that they're so super rich that they can afford several more Wii U failures before collapse (and the notion that they'll fold or merge is a nigh-on impossibility) it's still crunch time.

I don't think they can rely on underpowered tech and gimmicks, or be ignorant of the existing gaming market anymore. They'll need to adapt even if it's just a halfway house of Nintendo IPs crossed with PlayStation style catalogues.

If they go the gimmick route again I'll be amazed and in awe of their big corporate balls though. Either way, I'm hotly anticipating their next move.

It's also worth noting the GameCube and N64 weren't really underpowered tech compared to their predecessors, but they launched later in the generation. NX will he arriving st a similar point in the gen's life cycle, so I have a feeling it will be packing some sophisticated hardware.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:42 am 


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I will have a definitive answer once I actually know what the damn thing is. Nintendo's description? "It's a new experience."
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:53 am 


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Not at all. I want to know what the fuck it is and what games are going to be on it.

Regi himself said a year or two ago in an interview "We motivate people with the games" (a bit paraphrased). So what the hell are they doing this year showing only that one Zelda game and that's it? IIRC, they announced that was all they would show at E3. I don't think a major company has ever done so little at an E3 before.

Until they actually SAY something about the NX, I couldn't care less.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:48 pm 


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Lord Satori wrote:
So what the hell are they doing this year showing only that one Zelda game and that's it? IIRC, they announced that was all they would show at E3. I don't think a major company has ever done so little at an E3 before.

IIRC they initially said that, but since then have said they'll show a handful of other games; presumably you weren't the only one sending them WTF vibes, heh.

As for the NX...I suppose I'm more or less in the same boat as you are, at this point. I have no idea how it'll work or what'll be on it, so until I know at least that much there's only so hyped I can get about it.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:44 pm 


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broken harbour wrote:
Nintendo should play to their strengths, that being their main IP's like Zelda, Mario, Metroid, etc....


Those franchises have all gone a bit downhill recently no? skyward sword and spirit tracks sucked.
Not sure about main series Mario, but the Mario Bros spinoffs are just the same old shit.
Metroid? Lol other M.
Star fox zero? We know what happened there.

Still those franchises are such cash cows that you're probably right. I'm not excited for NX though.

So are people considering NX a late entry to current gen? Or more Dreamcast timing for next gen?
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:53 pm 


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Why do people not like Skyward Sword?

I didn't have time to play it much, so I dunno.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:51 pm 



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Blinge wrote:
Those franchises have all gone a bit downhill recently no? skyward sword and spirit tracks sucked.
Not sure about main series Mario, but the Mario Bros spinoffs are just the same old shit.
Metroid? Lol other M.
Star fox zero? We know what happened there.


"Same old shit" or perfection of a formula? You as an shmup player should cut Ninty some slack here. ;) Super Mario 3D World was extremely solid, with a huge amount of content for a platformer. (I sank over 50 hours into it.) It also had a very cool (and successful) spin-off with Captain Toad.

Also, let's not forget that Splatoon is absurdly successful, especially in Japan. Smash is also doing fabulously well, on all levels, i.e. it sold very well, people still play it, and the competitive scene loves it. BTW, Pokken sold more than a million, IIRC.

Personally, I'll wait and see because I first want to get through my backlog before getting a new console. Starting with the SNES and original Gameboy, I owned every Nintendo console and handheld with the exception of the Virtual Boy and the Wii (took a break from gaming for several years then). I always got my money's worth, and I don't see why the NX and MH should be any different.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:00 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:07 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
Why do people not like Skyward Sword?

I didn't have time to play it much, so I dunno.


I don't dislike it, but, from what I have played, I'm not a huge fan of the overworld bird parts and some of the motion controls. I'm not sure if I agree Zelda is going downhill since A Link Between Worlds is extremely well done, but I wasn't impressed by the demo of Tri Force Heroes. The online cues didn't seem to work well. I also heard that single player isn't done as well as in previous 4 swords games.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:24 pm 


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Reading 'NX' I hear 'Nukes'...

:arrow:
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:09 am 


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BrianC wrote:
Squire Grooktook wrote:
Why do people not like Skyward Sword?

I didn't have time to play it much, so I dunno.


I don't dislike it, but, from what I have played, I'm not a huge fan of the overworld bird parts and some of the motion controls. I'm not sure if I agree Zelda is going downhill since A Link Between Worlds is extremely well done


It is well done, but it's not as well done as previous high notes in the series. There are some issues with ALBW.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:03 am 


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Not really. I'm regretting buying the WiiU. I also regretted buying the 3ds. Not putting myself through this again. I bet it's going to be just like the WiiU except it connects with your cell phone. Whoop de doo.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:47 am 


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Dude, the Wii U has a far better selection of games than the Wii. If they didn't satisfy you, Nintendo probably never did/will.

Though yeah, I'm betting that it's not going to be hugely different, either.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:17 am 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
Why do people not like Skyward Sword?

I didn't have time to play it much, so I dunno.


Boring overworld with unnecessary Wiimote flying controls (which are irratatingly pasted into swimming as well) seems to exist purely to pad the game out. Second half of the game has you go back over all the same locations and a few quests are just obscene padding (collecting the fucking underwater musical notes). 1:1 swordplay is either slow when absolutely necessary or it's just quicker to either waggle away or use simple shield block/counter.

Switching from sword to a pointer item always requires you to reset the reticle, which is frustrating in timed puzzles. Red Steel 2 has a similar sword/pointer motionplus arrangement and manages fine.

The core game is fun, there's just so much padding amd repetition... and a lot of it has dumb controls pasted on. Why fly with the analogue stick when you can awkwardly twist the Wiimote and flap it up and down?
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:55 am 


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No, I'm not.

I also thought the Wii U sucked.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking forward to "NX"?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:16 am 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
Why do people not like Skyward Sword?

It is where Nintendo completed their childproofing of the series. Starting with 6 hearts, fewer items, lifelessly pastel, Nickelodeon villain enemy designs. Gross.


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