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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:06 am 


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I think Capcom is going to release SF5 in arcades, but it's supposed to be a custom build of the PC version or something. Whatever it is, I hope it turns out well. There's still the community that only plays in arcades, so it would be nice if they could move on from USF4.

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You have HDR on 360 or are you on Fightcade? We should throw down sometime.

I haven't played ST much since SF4 came out, but I'll play some time on Fightcade. Let me know when.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:47 am 


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Here's a great channel for Real Bout (the first one) matches: https://www.youtube.com/user/rb1ukyo
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:06 am 


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LEGENOARYNINLIA wrote:
Here's a great channel for Real Bout (the first one) matches: https://www.youtube.com/user/rb1ukyo


AWESOME! I've always loved the Fatal Fury Series!

Wish they had matches for other Real Bout Games as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:23 pm 


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Day 1 of the Capcom Cup was pretty crazy.

Infiltration: 0-2. Lost in the first round to Humanbomb in a close set, which really surprised me. I figured he would have been more prepared for Chun after the beating he took from MOV, but nope. Then he lost to Mago, which didn't surprise me at all.

Tokido: 0-2. His first match was against DR Ray (Vega), which I'm sure everybody thought he'd win. Except he got completely outplayed in neutral throughout the entire set and lost 3-1. Then he lost to Eita in losers, which wasn't surprising since I believe Eita has beaten him in every tournament (EVO, G-League, and now CC).

Daigo: Lost to K-brad in the first round. Another upset. He won a couple matches in losers before Fuudo sent him packing.

Momochi: Lost to Xiaohai. I thought for sure he'd win this time after losing at ESL. This match might have determined the whole tournament tbh. Momochi losing here put Nuckledu up against Xiaohai, and that match had to be the biggest ass beating I've seen in any SFV tournament. I don't think Du would have gotten past Momochi, but now he's in a good position to win the whole thing.

The rest of the results weren't too surprising. As expected, there were lots of great matches that came down to the last round - my favorite would probably be Daigo vs. sako. Daigo really should have lost that set. At the very end, sako went in and landed a cr.mk, which built enough meter for him to connect EX legs and win the match. But he didn't get the EX, so he whiffed regular lightning legs and Daigo finished him off with a sweep. Their reactions afterward said it all.


Tonight's top 8:

Winners:
MOV vs. NuckleDu - I think Guile is a hard match for Chun, so Du has a good shot at winning this. MOV has been playing extremely well, though, and I assume that he's studied up on the Guile match.
Ricki Ortiz vs. Haitani - Ricki beat GamerBee pretty cleanly, but now there's no doubt that Haitani is the #1 Necalli (if there ever was any). I think Haitani wins this one.

Losers:
Fuudo vs. Yukadon - Fuudo will probably win this. Yukadon is the #2 Nash (after Bonchan), but Fuudo is Fuudo and Mika is Mika.
Kazunoko vs. GO1 - Could go either way. Kazunoko has done better than I expected.

4 of these guys made top 8 at EVO, too. Nice consistency.


In other news:
Akuma SFV trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1wLpGFnR9s
Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite teaser (gameplay footage tonight during the Capcom Cup?): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAOgJ9y0Ots
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is out now for $25 on the PS4 (XB1 & PC in March): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KctMDsHVF8
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:01 am 


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iconoclast wrote:
it's probably fair to say that he's the best western fighting game player ever at this point.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:13 pm 


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As a big fan of Marvel <= 2, it pains me to say I have almost no hope at all for Infinite.

I've pretty much hated every fighter Capcom has made since SF4, with MVC3 epitomizing everything I consider shit design in a fighting game. The company is one step above Konami in my eyes right now, so between that and the recent track record, I'm not betting on them reviving the things I once liked about the Marvel brand anytime soon.

Maybe I'll pick it up for shits and giggles. Hopefully the steam verison won't give my computer a fucking rootkit.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:36 pm 


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As a guy who has never liked any Capcom game with versus in the title (or KOF) Infinite will get a giant pass from me.

I like my fighters like I like my shooters, the less shit I have to keep track of the better.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:43 pm 


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I don't mind the switch to tag team format, but regardless of what the gimmick is, I've lost all faith in Capcom to design games with (what I consider) actually fun gameplay fundamentals.

Or solid technical underpinnings.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:27 pm 


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Wow I am mildly retarded today. I had been looking at your old av for so long SG I didn't even realize it was you.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:32 pm 


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Ha ha ha, yeah I tend to keep them for a good long time. Can feel weird to switch them :)
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:25 pm 


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MvC3 and Tatsunoko are by Eighting, as is MvCI. Hoping the return to 2v2 means we'll get something closer to Tatsunoko.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:32 pm 



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iconoclast wrote:
it's probably fair to say that he's the best western fighting game player ever at this point.


It was a great win and he's earned the right to be called the best SFV player in the world right now, just like Infiltration was for the first half of the year, then Tokido, then Xiaohai for a little while... So let's see somebody at least have some consistency at the top before getting carried away. This game is still less than a year old.

The cream has not yet risen to the top and that's probably largely to do with SFV being the most technically undemanding fighting game ever to have such a strong competitive scene. I mean, do you believe it is as difficult to reach a high level of play in SFV as it is in games like ST, 3rd Strike, Vsav, VF series, GGXXAC+R/Xrd, etc... ? It seems like you must in order to make such an overblown statement. Already in less than a year of SFV we've seen something that I don't remember seeing throughout all of SFIV's ~6-7 year lifespan- a major tournament contested by two NA (or western) players in the grand final. And that's SFIV for Christ's sake, a game which already lowered the skill ceiling somewhat.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:56 pm 


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SFV is mechanically simple like fighting games of the past, and execution is not an issue 99.9% of the time, yet the same people who have been at the top of fighting games for the last 20 years are still at the top of SFV. That's because they play smarter, create better strategies, have a better understanding of psychology, and/or simply have better decision making than anybody else. The game could be more complex and it could have a bunch of 1f links like SF4, but the results would be the same. It's really no different from STGs, where there's a class of players who are obviously above everyone else, no matter which game they play.

And we're probably not going to see consistency at the top for an extended period of time because the competition is too fierce. Infiltration managed to pull it off in 2012, but besides that, the top player has been a revolving door between the same group of pros. Maybe we'll get a consistent champion if the Topanga League starts up again, since its round robin, long set format is a million times better than any other tournament at determining who the strongest player is (in SF4, it was certainly Daigo), but until then, the CPT is the only thing to go by (and ESL, SFV Crash, whatever).

Du and Ricki also earned their way to grand finals - especially Ricki, who beat Gamerbee, Yukadon, Go1, and Haitani to make it that far. It's not their fault that the celebrity players choked.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:21 am 


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trap15 wrote:
MvC3 and Tatsunoko are by Eighting, as is MvCI. Hoping the return to 2v2 means we'll get something closer to Tatsunoko.


A friend told me today that it's an "in house" team from Capcom ("the first time they've done that in nearly a decade"). He didn't give me a source though so whatever.

Regardless, if it is Eighting or not, I don't trust them. TvC was a decent enough game with some fun stuff, but Mvc3 was an abysmal downgrade in every way. It's like they've lost all concept of match pacing, flow, risk/reward, moveset design, etc.

If they make a decent game by accident I'll be surprised.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:39 am 


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MvCI is being developed in-house by Capcom USA. Combofiend is rumored to be the battle director. http://shoryuken.com/2016/12/04/morriga ... -infinite/

I don't like MvC2 or 3, so the further this gets from them, the more interested I am.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:58 am 


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iconoclast wrote:
I don't like MvC2 or 3, so the further this gets from them, the more interested I am.


Fair enough, but for the record, as someone who's spent a large amount of time with both, MVC2 is nothing like Mvc3. A lot of quirks of the engine and design philosphies that were preserved from Msh > xvsf > mshvsf > mvc1 > mvc2 are gone.

Mvc2 is more like Battle Garegga. Strong design fundamentals built up from more then a decade of experience developing for the genre + shit playtesting + luck = legendarily smart and unique game. Mvc3 is more like some amateur doujin game that tries to be Garegga but doesn't really understand the rank at all and just ends up being a one-dimensional, Pink Sweets-esque clusterfuck without any of the underlying solid pacing or pattern/stage design that you'd find in a YGW game.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:32 am 



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I've never heard anyone, not even Marvel 2 players, call the game "smart", let alone "legendarily smart". Difficult and unique, sure, but there were much smarter games before it and certainly after. Not to say that it's not a smart game in its own right, but that's not what really set it apart from its peers.

I agree with the rest of what you said, but I think CVS2 fits your complete description much better than Marvel 2. Besides being much more focused on groundwork, the game promoted smart play via the threat of RC on offense and defense. RC being a mechanic that, by most accounts, wasn't intentional, but significantly improved the game in a way that didn't overpower the options the game already had. It may as well have been intentional for how well it ended up working.

Anyways, I'm not hype for MVCI either. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume that this game isn't going to receive the Midas touch it needs to be great. Though, I did hold this same assumption in the back of my head with SFV, and I was glad to be wrong about that.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:16 am 


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It's definitely smart, as all good fighters are (it's literally a genre based on predicting your opponents actions, after all), and I've never heard anyone who plays the game downplay that aspect of it. Myself, I would never agree that there has been a smarter fighter.

If anything, I'd say it's a fighter that emphasizes long term strategic thinking over moment to moment tactics. The vast disparity in match ups (even with top tiers vs top tiers) and the way resources such as assist, timer, assist hp, meter, team order, etc. can vastly change those match ups creates a game where a sense of long term control and out smarting the opponent in the big picture are just as important as moment to moment reads and spacing. Not to say that "big picture strategy" and resource management/control doesn't come up in other fighters, but the way it's applied and the way you have to think to outsmart your opponent in mvc2 is completely unique. Passed the flashy footsies/mix up game, there's a lot of tactile things in MVc2 that work differently from other games and aren't easy to catch from small amounts of playtime or match footage.

I heard one player compare it to Starcraft Brood War once in terms of playstyle. Something I kind of agree with. The resource emphasis is also why I compare it to Garegga.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:44 am 


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The most interesting thing about MvC3 to me is that it's Nemo's favorite game. This guy who's played KoF, SF, GG, BB, CvS2, and so on at the highest level likes MvC3 more than any of them. It's actually pretty amazing that he got as good as he did, considering how small the scene is in Japan.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:10 am 


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Subjective taste. Most of these things are very tactile, and it's pretty much impossible to give a concrete analysis of games like this.

I just personally don't like the moveset designs, match pacing, risk/reward balance, etc. etc. but if someone else likes it for whatever reason, that's cool.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:29 pm 



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Squire Grooktook wrote:
It's definitely smart, as all good fighters are (it's literally a genre based on predicting your opponents actions, after all), and I've never heard anyone who plays the game downplay that aspect of it. Myself, I would never agree that there has been a smarter fighter.

If anything, I'd say it's a fighter that emphasizes long term strategic thinking over moment to moment tactics. The vast disparity in match ups (even with top tiers vs top tiers) and the way resources such as assist, timer, assist hp, meter, team order, etc. can vastly change those match ups creates a game where a sense of long term control and out smarting the opponent in the big picture are just as important as moment to moment reads and spacing. Not to say that "big picture strategy" and resource management/control doesn't come up in other fighters, but the way it's applied and the way you have to think to outsmart your opponent in mvc2 is completely unique. Passed the flashy footsies/mix up game, there's a lot of tactile things in MVc2 that work differently from other games and aren't easy to catch from small amounts of playtime or match footage.

I heard one player compare it to Starcraft Brood War once in terms of playstyle. Something I kind of agree with. The resource emphasis is also why I compare it to Garegga.


I really don't disagree with most of this, but at the same time I think the emphasis on "smartness" is being misplaced here. There's plenty of fighting games that reward you better for predicting your opponent's strategies through footsies/defense in particular that also have a strong element of resource management (CVS2 again being a good example here).

I'm not trying to downplay the foresight needed to play Marvel, but at the same time it's not something that significantly improves its value as a fighting game as much as it is an element that, cool and unique as it may be, is totally auxiliary to making a good fighting game and doesn't do much to address some of the inherent weaknesses of the game.

The moment to moment decisions in a fighting game should be equal to or greater than the long term strategy in terms of importance, otherwise you end up with a game where your decisions basically don't matter until you manage to get in a situation so good/bad that it comes down to a war of resources. Not to say Marvel fits this description to a tee, but it does toe the line at times.

I'd personally put Arcana Heart 3 an entire league above Marvel in terms of short term decisions affecting long term plans. Can't say that game isn't unique in how it approaches it, either.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:18 pm 


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quash wrote:
but at the same time I think the emphasis on "smartness" is being misplaced here. There's plenty of fighting games that reward you better for predicting your opponent's strategies


There's not much more you can do to "better reward" you for predicting your opponent then killing them.

Mvc2 is as smart as any fighter with a strong spacing game. And that spacing game wears the influence of more than a decade worth of development experience in the genre on its sleeve.

quash wrote:
The moment to moment decisions in a fighting game should be equal to or greater than the long term strategy in terms of importance


Again, it's like Starcraft or Garegga. Moment to moment dodging/micro/footsies victories are all individual tugs in a long term game of tug of war. Small choices spacing/reading gambles can still determine the match, as they set the tempo, and a hard enough read at a moment of opportunity can completely reverse the flow

quash wrote:
it's not something that significantly improves its value as a fighting game


I would say it does and that to say otherwise is just a matter of taste. Which is also why I don't like to get too deep into discussions of extremely tactile issues like this. I personally consider MVC2 to be tied as my favorite multiplayer game of all time, and consider it "perfect" in the sense that even its "flaws" are part of its indefatigable and joyful character. But of course that's just my taste. To say that it isn't smart however just demonstrates a lack of understanding of its nuances. There's no shortage of depth in its footsies/advanced spacing game, reading, mix ups, macro-game, or any significant part of a matches anatomy.

I'm not going to budge on it being deeper then the deepest ocean, as smart as a game can be, and easily one of the greatest pieces of electronic entertainment ever released, so we may just have to agree to disagree here rather than diverting the whole thread once more :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:22 pm 


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So apparently some new monster-themed fighter was also announced during the recent Playstation event?

I dunno, looks more like Battle Monsters than Darkstalkers off the cuff.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:02 am 



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I never said it wasn't smart, I just said that there were smarter games before and after.

The problem with you saying that it's the deepest fighting game ever (besides the flimsy premise on which you base it) is that it's a backhanded insult to the developers that have actually pushed the genre forward since its release. No matter how much you like it, Marvel 2 was a fortunate mistake at best, and no amount of endearing its numerous flaws changes that.

Since its release we've had an entire new subgenre of 2D fighters step foot into entirely uncharted territory, and they've managed to make these new things work in a way that doesn't subvert the fundamental workings of the genre in the way Marvel did.

This isn't to say that Marvel doesn't have its own appeal, or that it doesn't do things that other fighting games still don't, but this begs the question of why nobody has even bothered to try to make these things work since. Not for lack of imagination or vision, because I'm pretty sure ArcSys could make a better Marvel game than Marvel if they wanted to. My take is that it's because these ideas, no matter how well they ended up working within the vacuum of one game, aren't a solid foundation for the genre as a whole. Seeing as we now have VS games taking pages from ArcSys' playbook, surely there is some credence to this.

I don't have a problem with you liking Marvel 2 or even saying that it's your favorite fighting game. The problem is that you're putting forth an argument that it's the deepest without much to support it. Saying that it's like two other games of other genres may help someone unfamiliar with the game to understand your position, but it doesn't support your thesis. Whereas I wrote an entirely too long article on my position of Guilty Gear being the deepest fighting game currently out and the most artistically significant fighting game since SFII, you've put forth that Marvel 2 is the deepest because it places a large emphasis on resource management like some other non-fighting games.

If you don't want to defend your position past that, you shouldn't make a claim that warrants scrutiny. Again, I don't disagree with many of your claims regarding the game, moreso the scope of those claims. I won't pull the lack of understanding card because it's not productive when you clearly do understand at least one game well enough to accurately say why it's good, even if you're exaggerating your claims.

And this discussion totally belongs in this thread, because naturally comparisons between the new games this thread is focused on and older games are going to be made. The entire point of new games is to be better than old ones, and if there's conflicting views on which games are better (or on what constitutes good to begin with), where else is this supposed to be discussed?


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:29 am 


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I went to Capcom Cup Day 1. It was amazing to be surrounded by people that I've only seen on streams. It was cool to hang out with friends and get some snax and drinks from the food trucks.

I got to talk to Daigo again about riichi mahjong.

Capcom Cup Day 2 was insane. I found myself wishing that match between Nuckledu and Rickayyyy would go on forever.

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:46 am 


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quash wrote:
is that it's a backhanded insult to the developers that have actually pushed the genre forward since its release.


No. It's more that I don't view games as belonging on a linear quality scale and more as appealing to different needs and tastes. My top fighters are something like: Mvc2, Skullgirls, Third Strike, Vampire Saviour, Super Turbo. While Mvc2 and Skullgirls are at the top for me, I view all these games as different kinds of "deep" and "smart" masterpieces that have different "flavors". I don't really believe that the quality of a game can be perfectly quantified, anyway.

quash wrote:
This isn't to say that Marvel doesn't have its own appeal, or that it doesn't do things that other fighting games still don't, but this begs the question of why nobody has even bothered to try to make these things work since.


Skullgirls is literally the perfect spiritual successor to Marvel 2 ("the real Marvel 3" basically), that manages to stay true to most of its appeals while refining out pretty much all of its flaws and playing differently enough to stand on its own. It's pretty much tied with Marvel 2 as my other favorite fighting game of all time.

Even there though, Marvel 2 and Skullgirls are different enough on subtle levels that SG doesn't invalidate Mvc2, and I regularly play both.

quash wrote:
I don't have a problem with you liking Marvel 2 or even saying that it's your favorite fighting game. The problem is that you're putting forth an argument that it's the deepest without much to support it.


Ah, that's the thing. I didn't put forth an argument. I stated a taste/opinion (briefly equating mvc2 and garegga as "legendarily smart" games, a title which I believe all top-class fighters deserve anyway), and you started trying to make a discussion out of it :3 I merely responded with a quickie Cliffnotes synopsis of some of the basic ideas of the game that make it so smart and endlessly dynamic, but we're definitely at the tip of the iceburg here.

I personally believe it's amongst the deepest and most dynamic games ever made. I could argue it, and there's definitely an incredible amount of things to talk about, but I don't feel like spending the next 3 weeks* making screen filling, multi-paragraph long posts for the next 10 pages in this thread talking about the merits of Magneto's crouching light kick , that's all. And really, if you actually want to start a discussion about "what fighting game is the deepest" that's the kind of thing that can and has provoked hundreds of pages of rediculously minute argument. No thanks.

I just prefer to keep forum discussions short and sweet, and no offence but, I know from past observation that you do not share that taste :wink:

*especially when I have 2 exams approaching
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RegalSin wrote:
Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

Aeon Zenith - My STG.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:21 am 



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I'll admit that seeing Marvel described as legendarily smart caught me off guard and may have caused me to question the rationale behind it more than I should have. I think I made it clear that my position is coming from one that's comparing it to other fighting games specifically; though, obviously, in the grand scheme of things, yes, it's a very challenging game, and holds its own even within its own genre.

Still, given the context in which you said it, I had no choice but to be led to believe that you were saying it was the deepest game, and while it sure seems like I was on to something, if you say otherwise I'll take your word for it.

While I do take issue with a few things (a perfect successor, "spiritual" or otherwise, should by definition be superior to its predecessor), I agree overall with your Cliffnotes assessment of Marvel 2. I can't help but think that you are selling several other fighting games short, but that's a discussion for another day, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:35 am 


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Well, just to hopefully make you happy, let me put it this way: When it comes to games like Third Strike, SVC2, MVC2, Guilty Gear AC, KOF, (and I believe Skullgirls has earned its spot here), etc. I view all these legendary, top level games as "deeper than the deepest ocean", and once you've jumped off the continental shelf, "deep" starts to get a bit ambiguous and hard to determine. So which one is a few inches deeper isn't a big concern of mine.

Suffice to say I have endless respect for all of them.
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RegalSin wrote:
Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

Aeon Zenith - My STG.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:24 am 



Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Posts: 928
Location: 横浜
Right, and I'm glad you don't succumb to the FGC echo chamber tendency of writing off games that are perfectly fine. But at the same time, there is and has been a linear progression of the genre since its inception.

While there always is room for personal taste, I doubt there is a person on the planet that prefers Street Fighter 1 to Street Fighter 2. There's a point where linear progression and room for preference converge; sometimes, even if a game is fine, it just gets entirely outclassed later on.

The thing right now is that we have constant updates and games are mostly improving, but at the same time there is a distinct lack of vision among the most recent titles (with the main exception being, much to my surprise, SFV). There's a distinct level of anxiety among fans of the genre right now and I think that's the main reason: most things are improving, but nothing is really changing, either.

I just hope that the latest generation of fighting game directors bring something new to the table. Woshige and Combofiend did well with SFV, so hopefully this can become a trend from MVCI forward.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Game Hype Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:41 am 


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quash wrote:
sometimes, even if a game is fine, it just gets entirely outclassed later on.


It depends on the type of update. Earlier revisions before a definitive version of a game are one thing (and sometimes even there, there are exceptions where one might prefer an earlier version for various and possibly subjective reasons), but I don't think most notable older games like ST have ever been "outclassed" by any of their successors, and still have a character and playstyle very much their own.
_________________
RegalSin wrote:
Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

Aeon Zenith - My STG.


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