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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:33 pm 


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Turns out the game's credits is almost 4 hours long. They had to list every single one of the 70k backers in there.
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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:40 pm 


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Wow, that's an... inefficient way to thank all the backers. Especially if 90% of the names are left out as "A Generous Backer."

system11 wrote:
Reading the reviews, it's not even that bad.


It has the unenviable misfortune of hyping itself up so very much (so very much) that there was no way people wouldn't end up disappointed. Marketing a mega man clone as the Second Mega Coming might have outstripped the scope of the game; I don't think normal Mega Man games ever generated that much excitement, except for the vocal minority of Legends 3 fans.
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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:32 am 


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PS4/Xbox One comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9dgvSUg3KI

So the game looks like shit, runs like shit, and the vsync/bloom toggles in the option menu don't actually do anything. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:24 am 


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How in the fuck does this go under 60 FPS on anything made in the past 10 years? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:49 pm 


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lack of any technical skill or talent....
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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:27 pm 


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I think it has more to do with laughably bad mismanagement than a lack of skill from Inti Creates. Like for example, a producer who promised they'd release the game on 11 different platforms at the same time. Inti is developing Bloodstained as well and that looks 10x better than this.
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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:59 pm 



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iconoclast wrote:
I think it has more to do with laughably bad mismanagement than a lack of skill from Inti Creates. Like for example, a producer who promised they'd release the game on 11 different platforms at the same time. Inti is developing Bloodstained as well and that looks 10x better than this.


I think it's rather obvious that they lack (probably a lot of) experience concerning 3D graphics. They also simply haven't done anything relevant with modern 3D graphics until now. It sure was their first go at the UE3, an engine which many bigger teams failed to get running well on the last gen. But them not even getting it to run acceptable on the new consoles or building something more efficient on their own doesn't exactly speak for them. The performance is a real joke for some areas (where the framerate drops almost to half the frames with constant hiccups, mostly due to unnecessary effects and other nonsense and there btw. isn't even stuff like simpler forms of anti aliasing applied) and it does run totally inconsistent for the rest of the game.
And although Bloodstained looks much better, that has rather to do with a more successful translation of the art direction. Looking at the graphics on a technical level and the performance of the Demo (which naturally is a very early build but still something they felt okay with releasing, without any graphics options btw.) and how demenading it is, it's balance is at the moment almost as bad as MN9's.
Them again using an engine they've got no experience with really baffles me. I sure hope it'll end better this time but I sure wouldn't bet on it yet.

Also, if Inti is indeed responsible for the controls of MN9, there's absolutely no reason to defend them. It's like a sluggish and overall shitty version of the X control scheme, with added inertia that kills air control and a fucking stupid stumble animation (sets in when you push into a direction upon landing from a jump), which lets the character stumble forward on it's own. There is even buffering glitches. Seeing that it was so since the first Beta, I don't really think this can simply be explained by the mismanagement.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:31 pm 


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Bloodstained is naturally going to be fairly demanding because it's an UE4 game targeting the PS4 & XB1. I'm sure it'll scale well enough for low end PCs by the time it's out, but the demo is probably what they're going for. I think it technically looks far better than MN9 too - the graphics filter looks nice, the textures are way more detailed, character models look much better, there are more effects, etc. But that's to be expected because they don't have to worry about making it run on old systems. That's one of MN9's failures. Inti obviously isn't the most tech savvy developer out there, so expecting them to make 360/PS3/3DS/Vita/WiiU versions of the game simultaneously certainly did them no favors. Bloodstained is coming out on Vita and the Wii U too, but that's being ported by a different developer after the game is finished. That's the right way to support old/weak hardware. (It would probably be smarter to not bother with either system, really.)
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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:29 am 


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For what it's worth, Rayman Origins on the Wii runs impeccably, if (obviously) doesn't look as defined as the PC/PS3/360 versions, but it is overall serviceable. Granted, it was a poster child for bespoke technology, but I feel THAT is how much weaker system than the rest should be catered for (3DS one reportedly performs poorly, though; I wonder how much of the game was already made when that platform got included).
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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:38 am 



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After hating on MN9 so much, I got to mention though, that I just tested and really like the Ray DLC. A lot. Her mechanics solve many of the level design and control issues I personally see with the game and she also doesn't have the stupid stumble (it really makes a difference). While with Beck there are many spots, where you have to be very precise to stay in the flow of the stages and where especially smaller flying enemies or the bigger ones with much health can be a pain due to the bullet limit and the small size of the lemon shots, the (air) dash of Ray totally disregards this since you simultaniously attack with it and kill smaller enemies instantly, which would take Beck 2-3 hits just to destabilize them. Ray absorbs enemies automatically when you kill them btw. so the Combo System doesn't matter that much here. You'll always get 100% absorbs from direct kills. The way rankings are calculated for her reflects this though and there is more emphasis on health, time and how many enemies you've killed in total. It's much harder to get S ranks with her actually, since you pretty much have to get a perfect run. Not that it matters much.
If you dash into bigger enemies -which with Beck often happens unintentionally to me because of the too long air dash range, the inertia/sluggishness and some questionable enemy placements- you can use this to your advantage with her and do it intentionally, since she bounces off of those without taking damage (in fact you even get some invincibility frames with the bounce) and can then do a follow up slash attack which'll kill them. Seems to be a mechanic they're also going to use in Gunvolt 2 with a new character. Not in combination with melee though sadly. I really like the way it works here.

All of this leads to the stages becoming a lot more fun imo and the game getting a much faster pace, since you basically don't have to stop for anything and the flow getting pretty close to the one of the Zero games. Maybe even faster since you can simply dash through the weaker enemies. It admittedly marginalizes a few of the harder parts of some stages, like the last part of the Pyro stage with the falling towers, but since most of those were never fun to begin with and iirc also reliant an luck with some spawns, that's okay with me. The life drain still keeps it challenging enough and especially the boss fights benefit from the melee approach. As with the Zero games, one of the basics is to time the combo and land her third attack for more damage, making the fights a bit more interesting. The big hitbox of the slash helps as well. You'll also often have no health left for the last part of the boss battles since your life drains pretty quickly when not killing enemies, without you dying when it reaches zero. The next hit will kill you though and you can only regain health during boss fights by getting the boss's health down to a certain point (where you'd normally do an absorb with Beck).

Though I'm not interested much in MN9's main game, Ray ist definitely something I could see myself coming back to, especially if they get the framerate fixed. I even like the presentation of the story more here since it's artworks and no 3d cutscenes.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:26 pm 


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especially if they get the framerate fixed


Don't hold your breath on that one.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:39 am 


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If upper management at Capcom was intelligent, they would do a quick upscale hackjob of Mega Man Powered Up and sell it at half the price of Mario Maker on several platforms. They probably ran into a fair number of problems in its initial run, but I don't remember playing any levels resembling Bowsers stacked to the sky. Plus Clock Man was one of the better boss ideas.

I was looking for it on Vita but they only have Maverick Hunter, makes sense if a big part of the game is gone, but I still like the single player.
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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:00 am 


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szycag wrote:
I was looking for it on Vita but they only have Maverick Hunter, makes sense if a big part of the game is gone, but I still like the single player.


Powered Up is on the JP store. The reason the game isn't on the US store is that the US translation has a glitch that makes the game freeze or crash when it's saved to the memory stick. The JP version never had this glitch.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:06 am 


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szycag wrote:
If upper management at Capcom was intelligent

If upper management at Capcom was intelligent, Mighty No. 9 would've had no need to exist, because they would've brought Megaman into the modern era like MN9 was trying to do (that was his selling point at first, iirc). All of the classics have wide appeal thanks to how much they've evolved over time, and Megaman's latest games are exactly the same as his first, and thus appeal only the most hardcore crowd due to difficulty.

Of course I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got.
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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:38 pm 


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I haven't grown up with Mega Man games and I am not a huge fan of the series so I may lack some vital pieces of information, but can someone explain to me why the fanbase seems to act as if there are little to no installments in the series and that Capcom never did much with it? (and thus why that fanbase initally latched on to Mighty N°9) I mean, there are already 10 games in the "classic" series, and various sub-series exist : the X, the Zero, Battle Network. etc. From an outside perspective, it seems like the franchise was instead milked to death, with potentially enough games to last a lifetime. So, why the rising desire from the fanbase to "ressurect" the series?
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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:20 pm 


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Presumably because, even likely not having played/finished all the previous games, they still enjoy what they have played enough that they would like to see more. Sort of like the crowd around here when it comes to shmups. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:40 pm 


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iconoclast wrote:
Bloodstained is naturally going to be fairly demanding because it's an UE4 game targeting the PS4 & XB1. I'm sure it'll scale well enough for low end PCs by the time it's out, but the demo is probably what they're going for. I think it technically looks far better than MN9 too - the graphics filter looks nice, the textures are way more detailed, character models look much better, there are more effects, etc. But that's to be expected because they don't have to worry about making it run on old systems. That's one of MN9's failures. Inti obviously isn't the most tech savvy developer out there, so expecting them to make 360/PS3/3DS/Vita/WiiU versions of the game simultaneously certainly did them no favors. Bloodstained is coming out on Vita and the Wii U too, but that's being ported by a different developer after the game is finished. That's the right way to support old/weak hardware. (It would probably be smarter to not bother with either system, really.)


I remember reading on the Kickstarter page that the portable versions of Mighty No. 9 were also handed off to a different developer.


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 Post subject: Re: Mighty No. 9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:11 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:29 am 


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iconoclast wrote:
PS4/Xbox One comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9dgvSUg3KI

So the game looks like shit, runs like shit, and the vsync/bloom toggles in the option menu don't actually do anything. :lol:


The WiiU version turned out worse, though, ironically, the option for bloom actually works in that version.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickstarter: Inafune Mega Man-esque game(Mighty No. 9)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:25 am 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Presumably because, even likely not having played/finished all the previous games, they still enjoy what they have played enough that they would like to see more. Sort of like the crowd around here when it comes to shmups. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Mighty No. 9
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:43 pm 


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Remember how poorly the original Odin Sphere run in places (even the - reportedly extra-optimised - PAL version)? It sure looked nice but not exactly "tech demo" way and it was ONLY ONE SYSTEM, darn LATE in its lifecycle at that.
Just give me an example of a small-time dev team taking on this many platforms at once and not having botched up a thing (in recent times, preferably).
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 Post subject: Re: Mighty No. 9
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:42 am 



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Screw the haters; this game is better than any of the "classic" NES and SNES Mega Man/Mega Man X games. Great kinetic feel, and tying the dash into combat gives makes it wonderfully aggressive. Love how getting E-tanks is a matter of using the game's core systems correctly, not a matter of "exploration". The overwhelming negative reviews on Steam, if you actually bother to read them, are nothing but scrubs whining about the difficulty, which is pretty telling.

Kinda makes me curious about Azure Striker Gunvolt.


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 Post subject: Re: Mighty No. 9
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:09 pm 


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Better than even Rockman & Forte?

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One game developed and released for no less than FOUR platforms simultaneously would be OutRun 2006. I was playing the Japanese PS2 "2 SP" iteration today (which is actually a build later than all the rest) and what do you know - when I crossed the "GOAL" tape in a Coast 2 Coast event it didn't stop but run straight through the crowd behind into the "bunki"* where nothing more loaded in and so I drove into skybox and had to quit the event manually (pause menu still worked). This kind of glitches are way more common in PC version still, where only rebooting the system seems to help when it happens.
Those weren't even "small-time" devs or publisher, but all four platforms ought to be serviced in time for the OutRun's 20th anniversary and it shows.
*) https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/1 ... ide-outrun/
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 Post subject: Re: Mighty No. 9
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:41 pm 



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I said "SNES", not "Super Famicom".

I haven't played MM & Bass (or any post-X3 Mega Man other than 8), so I can't speak to MN9 vs. MM+B. I will say that MN9 is better than any of the Mega Man games I have played, though (1-8, X-X3). Yes, it's better than 2 and X.


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 Post subject: Re: Mighty No. 9
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:10 pm 


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Better than the original Mega Man X?

Uh... no.
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 Post subject: Re: Mighty No. 9
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:24 pm 



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It's better than MMX in basically every way. Better pacing, less padding in the guise of "do the levels over again with new items in order to get more new items". Having the "proper" boss weapon doesn't create as much disparity as it does in MMX (at least for the one I've done where I had the proper weapon), so the boss fights are actually about learning the fight instead of "learn correct boss order, mash Y". Losing E-tanks on death instead of encouraging hoarding is an obvious improvement, and it's how they should have worked from their introduction in Megaman 2. Losing the tedium of weapon energy pickup management is a big improvement.

I can't speak for the technical issues on the console versions, but the PC/Steam version does not deserve the hate it's gotten. It's a very nice action platformer, and better than the games that served as its inspiration.


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 Post subject: Re: Mighty No. 9
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:35 pm 


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Did they fix the lack of fun in the PC version too?
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 Post subject: Re: Mighty No. 9
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:43 pm 



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If you can't find fun in the dash-absorb mechanics, or even the general fast-paced flow of the game's movement, you have no soul.


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 Post subject: Re: Mighty No. 9
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:30 pm 


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Are you trying to imply that literally everyone but you has no soul?
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 Post subject: Re: Mighty No. 9
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:06 pm 



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Given that it has more positive reviews on Steam than negative reviews, I'd say that most people have souls.

Maybe not people in this thread, I guess.


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