Squire Grooktook wrote:
IMO, if a hard game is truly "fair" it should be possible for a theoretical "perfect" player to clear it on his first attempt, blind, and without taking any damage.
Well, that's NG1. Find me one example where the game will kill you out of sheer, unavoidable cheapness and not because you reacted inappropriately to something.
Edmond Dantes wrote:
That being said, I'm tired of this discussion. I thought I might give the game another go if somebody could convince me it was worthwhile, but so far all I'm hearing basically amounts to "just get better, then you won't die." Which is about as useful as walking up to a depressed man and saying all their problems will go away if they just smile.
Facile, worthless analogy. A valid one would be telling the depressed guy to identify what's depressing him and take steps to mitigate or solve those issues. This is a useful thought process in many areas of the human experience.
I'm getting a strong feeling of fan myopia. BIL has been saying "nothing is unforseeable or unavoidable"... but he forgets that this is true only for him, and only because he has decades of experience. I highly doubt he or anyone else literally foresaw and prepared for every single danger in the game on their first try. No offense, but I notice this with hardcore gamers a lot--like last year I met a Silent Hill fan who got onto me for missing the red gunk in the hospital, even though it was my first playthru and I wasn't using a FAQ. I highly doubt this guy saved Cybil on his first play either.
Wrong, and patronising but I won't hold that against you (see below). You're assuming I've dedicated two-thirds of my life to playing this game. In reality I played it on-off as a kid for scrubby "clears" then ignored it through the last couple generations until in 2012, after a little trepidation
I experienced a revelation about hardcore action sidescrolling.
I'm not sure I ever no-missed NG1 or NG2 until the last year. Still haven't done NG3.
Point is, there's no myopia here. If I thought NG1 or any other game I own
was lacking in some way I'd point it out. Search my post history for "Alisia Dragoon" to see me regularly slate this expensive, beloved piece of my collection for its amateurish control problems. I'm as objective as lunatic fringe hardcore gamers come.
And I'm a huge Silent Hill (KCET) fan! Watch me tear the Gamespot review of SH2 to shreds here.
Another facile analogy from you with the Aglaophotis, and that guy was a dumbass for giving you hard time about missing it. Everyone does. It's the theoretical NG equivalent of not picking up a unique, worthless "bagel" subweapon in 2-2 then getting the bad ending because you didn't rub it on the Demon's forehead.
And then there's the strange concept of what's "fair" the hardcore of this forum seem to have. It's "fair" to force a player to play long stretches of game if they die at the very end--not even use a continue, just die. If that's fair, then I'm curious what you guys think of Last Battle on the Sega Genesis, which literally gives you no continues, no saves or passwords, and just one life--you die, you start the entire game over, it doesn't matter how far you got. I'm tempted to also mention Superman 64, but that might be hitting below the belt. I get that there's an underlying belief that this is supposed to somehow make me better at those levels, but to be honest, the truth is the exact opposite. This very forum hosts a strategy guide that endorses using savestates to practice, after all, so I know you all know this.
There's nothing to discuss. The game designers set a rule, we players can either deal with it, cheat, or move on. As long as you're not losing unfairly, what the game does with your battered corpse is none of my concern.
"This forum" is not a hivemind. Here's what I think about savestates.
MD Hokuto no Ken sounds like a bitch, but I've never been compelled to play it so I can't comment. I know Ruldra likes it and he's awesome so I might give it a shot sometime.
Bringing up Superman 64 after linking to HG101 earlier makes me think you're a bit of a noob, and just need to toughen up and work on your learning processes. :/ If anyone's the resident X-Multiply fan here, btw, it's saucykobold.
I'm not against difficult games, as long as they're fair. Makaimura is fair. Gradius is fair. R-Type is fair. Most Irem games are fair. Most Capcom games are fair. Ninja Gaiden is only challenging because it's blatantly unfair.
Sorry, what a load of rubbish. NG1 is by far the least cruel game of all those you mention. Go clear Makaimura then return to NG1.
What you're saying is you can take any amount of beatings, humiliations and tortures as long as you don't get sent back a few levels after your failure - but if a game does that, holy shit, warpath time. That's a personality issue you'll have to resolve on your own, there's literally nothing to discuss.
Well, gonna go watch BIL's playthru now. Let's see if that enlightens me.
Work on your timing and accuracy, Edmond!