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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 7:28 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Is there any love for Little Nemo in this thread?
I've owned it for decades, but always gave up on the first stage due to how cumbersome it felt to play it.


I've personally never played it, but I do recall Kitten posting about having cleared it.

Also, BIL posted this sometime back:

BIL wrote:
Haha, don't worry about cuteness. :mrgreen: Bucky, Little Nemo and Gimmick have all been covered in this thread with much enthusiasm. I like what I've played of Samson/Lickle but it's one of those pricey games I'm not quite enticed enough by.


So I guess Little Nemo's has been discussed before, and should be should be somewhere in the thread's old posts.

-----

Got a very slightly better highscore in Front Line of 65600 points.
This is the second time I managed to reach stage 4, and it is quite hard to do so. The random faster enemies are pretty brutal, and I think I died twice against them in this run alone.

One little correction I want to make: destroying enemies with the tanks give 100 points * Level, not 200 * Level (at least the big tank does).

As a bonus, here's a fast and efficient way of destroying the enemy's bunker (though it's not exactly hard to begin with):
Spoiler: show
Image


You can throw the grenade a little early (just before the turret appears), and walk forward to scroll it in.

Also look at that fancy leg animation, and that badass way of wearing the helmet (not strapped to the chin!). :mrgreen:

-----

Managed to somewhat properly play the arcade version of this game.
The original arcade cabinet uses a sort of rotary switch for the weapon (like Ikari Warriors), but it's not analog. Rather, it is kind of like an 8-way joystick (like the movement one) internally, and MAME maps it exactly to that.
So by mapping both joysticks to the same buttons (both movement and weapon 'Up' direction to the D-Pad's Up arrow, etc), I got it to work like the FC port.

The game is obviously prettier, but as far as gameplay goes, it's much harder (though that shouldn't be a surprise).
In the arcade game your character (and the enemies, I guess) is faster, so it's slightly easier to move around and avoid shots, but it's not exactly hard to get shot either. :lol:
There are also mines on the floor, which kill you if you step on them. It also can have some 5 enemies on screen at once, and they even appear from the back more frequently.
Enemy positioning and behaviour is also more involved.

There's probably more differences, but I haven't played it long enough.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:27 am 


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I have the Colecovision version of Front Line. That one uses the extra buttons on the Super Action controller for aiming. I remember liking it, but I haven't played it for awhile. It also looks and sounds a bit different from the arcade version, if I remember correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:38 am 


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mamboFoxtrot wrote:
I also tried out Layla and HOLY SHIT that momentum. Dear God.

Yeah, the controls are really slippery, and there's also boring and overly long shmup sections between two stages.

With its diverse weapons, it feels like it could have been fun if it weren't for those loose movement physics. I still fire it up from time to time, but much better action games are on this console anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:48 am 


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Tried out LayLa yesterday too, coincidentally. It was kind of a weird upside-down experience following Little Nemo.
While Nemo feels like a good game that's just absolutely no fun to play, I'd describe LayLa as a really bad game that's quite fun to play. But my immediate reaction to the game is somewhere along the lines of "wth is this even?". You just run ahead at full speed blasting random stuff and hoping to get somewhere. I'm not sure about the point of the game, or whether I should keep playing. It feels like a game that goes nowhere, but I could be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:07 am 


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How far in the game did you go?
Layla's stages ("called "asteroids" IIRC) are divided into two sections : An linear outside section where the goal is simply to reach the exit and a more maze-like fortress where you'll have to hunt down a boss.
That second part could feel more meaningful to you. :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:18 am 


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I made it past the first shmup bonus stage and a while into the second asteroid and then I got bored.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:26 am 


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If the way the game plays bored you by the second stage, I don't think what follows will spark interest.
The furthest I went was the third fortress and the formula hasn't changed compared to the first ones aside from more complexity in the fortresses' layouts.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:12 pm 


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BrianC wrote:
I have the Colecovision version of Front Line. That one uses the extra buttons on the Super Action controller for aiming. I remember liking it, but I haven't played it for awhile. It also looks and sounds a bit different from the arcade version, if I remember correctly.


I never played a Colecovision before (in either hardware of emulated form), but from the screenshots, it, at least, looks better than the FC port.
It has different spites for enemies and the player, and they are also less square-ish, which makes them look slightly more reallistic.
It also appears to have the mines from the arcade version, something that the FC port is missing.

But that Super Action Controller...
It is probably because it was simply well before my time, but it looks so incredibly clunky and weird. :o
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 2:43 am 


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Sumez wrote:
Is there any love for Little Nemo in this thread?
I've owned it for decades, but always gave up on the first stage due to how cumbersome it felt to play it.

Having just completed it, my disposition really hasn't changed. The controls are sluggish, with a slow walk and limited jumps, lots of weird or unfriendly hitboxes. Lots of time wasted in exploration, trying to follow the game's set cycle of animal friends you need to change between.
The game feels like it should be good, and has a generally very high production quality, but while it seems like the animal powers should be fun, they feel more like a limitation instead, and cycling through them and dealing with their drawbacks (which usually means lacking any means of attacking the enemies) is the real challenge in the game, rather than the genuine obstacles in the stage, which includes several enemies that seem like they are programmed to be a pain in the ass rather than a challenge (those dandelions, anyone?)

I wouldn't call it a hard game, but I think it's frustratingly hard for all the wrong reasons.

I absolutely adore the graphics used for Nemo's life meter though:
Image


I'm not a fan either. It seems like it should be great. It looks and sounds good, the animal costume gimmick is appealing, and I'm always willing to give 8 and 16 bit Capcom the benefit of the doubt. But I think the proto-collectathon level design is pure anti-fun. Most of the costumes are not very powerful or enjoyable to use, and there's very frequently a specific one you need to progress. Lots of backtracking if you don't know which one in advance. And then when you get the one good costume (the bee) the game likes to tell you to switch it away right after.

There's potential there for something great if they'd made it more Mario-like with straightforward get-to-the-exit levels and costumes that grant different, optional ways to approach things. As is, I consider it mostly bad up until you reach the dark world, and then not good enough to justify the rest.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:27 am 


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Exactly. The only real issue I have with the game is that it only uses the "animal suits" to FORCE you to do something specific for the next section to move on and switch to the next. There's no game in that, it's just following orders. Most animals will only be used to jump a single obstacle before you switch to the next. Unfortunately that's a very major issue.
A more optional approach to dealing with the stages would indeed be much more fun.

I don't think the game changes much for the final 3-act gauntlet, but it's nice that they at least introduced boss battles.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 7:14 pm 


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Played a couple more credits on Front Line (FC) today, and finally reached Level 5 for the first time (and got a more decent high score as well).

Image

Perhaps surprisingly, in my opinion, the most dangerous part of the game, is the start of each level from level 2 onwards.
This is because you start each level on the bottom of the screen, and except for level 1 (which gives you a few seconds before any enemy spawns), the enemies immediately spawn when the level start.

Normally, you're always (or at least trying to) moving forward (and the screen is scrolling), and any enemy that spawns near you (you usually only need to worry about those spawning from the top of the screen, or from the sides but close to the top) has a delay before they will start firing, that you can (and should) use to kill them, before they can do anything. That's because if you take too long, miss a shot, or simply approach an already spawned enemy, you risk getting shot at, and given your slow speed, the chance of you evading the shot is very slim.

Well, approaching an already spawned and "ready to fire" enemy, is exactly the problem here. In fact, I'd say that you do not want to approach an already spawned enemy to shoot him (with the standard shot), ever. Grenades are your best friend in this situation.

So, if I may put it this way, it is kind of like Ninja Gaiden, in the sense that most of the time, you want to immediately slash enemies without delay as they spawn, simply because they have a very predictable behaviour then (like the enemies that fire shots always have the same amount of delay from when they spawn, to when they fire the first shot.

The starting section (until the tanks section) is the hardest and most dangerous. Though the danger doesn't exactly go away later, it's more manageable. I also, once again, stand by my strategy to not pick up the small tank, and instead go on foot until you find a big tank.
One thing that does help here (and in the on foot section as well, but perhaps not as well), while on foot searching for another tank, is to stay away from the enemy tanks' 8 cardinal directions as much as possible, so that if they shoot you, you'll be able to avoid it (hopefully, anyway), and to avoid crossing the tanks' horizontal axis (that is, trying to move past them upwards, in order to move on), as their shot is much faster than your walking speed, and you may just end up dead.
If, and when you do so, try to do it when they are relatively far away, so that you actually have time to make it across.

Also, you can use grenades here (and should, since they really help) to help you across.
It is tempting (and sometimes correct) to throw them on the tanks' current path, to take them out, but I'd say it is more useful to throw them in the line between you and the tank, so that, should the tank try to move in your direction, he'll be destroyed, and if he doesn't, you're, at least, safe. This same strategy works well with the regular enemies too.

I've read that the score caps at 99,999 points (and resets after, apparently), and I wanted to reach it (and still do), but I'm more inclined to see how far in levels I can reach, since you can milk score by simply destroying enemies and staying put, waiting for them to respawn and repeating. Not very fun, I guess.

Now that I've sort of got used to how the odd diagonal (and not centered) shots work, I find it a bit more fun.
The game's already challenging as it is, and playing while not used to that weird mechanic makes it seem even more so. So I can sort of understand how people playing for the first time (especially if only for a bit) might find it odd and/or not fun.

Anyway, despite the crude looks, and simplistic gameplay, I believe it still maintains a decent level of challenge (in a good way), due to it's do-or-die nature of, missing a shot or taking too long to act will probably result in death.

I'll play a bit more of this (and also the occasional run every now and then), but I think I'll soon graduate to Senjou No Ookami. :)

EDIT: Rewording, fixed typos.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:47 am 


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__SKYe wrote:
I'll play a bit more of this (and also the occasional run every now and then), but I think I'll soon graduate to Senjou No Ookami. :)


The FC Senjou port is sadly really rough - handles like a dog. I wanted to pick up a copy (the posed figure boxart is so rad!), but just couldn't deal with the AC Super Contra-esque aim lag. Can't recall if the arcade original is like that too... regardless, without it the FC port would be a fun little rampage.

Sumez wrote:
Damn. Once again you were able to predict my opinions before I knew about them myself.


BTW, have you played Amagon/Totsuzen Machoman (NES/FC)? I'm way, wayyy behind on my sidescroller thread posts, but TLDR it was the surprise hit of my recent ROM try-outs. By Aicom - I believe the same developer (if not necessarily same people) behind Gun-Dec. Not perfect, but a surprisingly well thought-out, arcade-brisk and arcade-tough action/platformer. It's roughly the Ninja Crusaders to Mega Man's Ninja Gaiden; nervier 1HKO game with a deadly emphasis on observing enemy behaviours and patterns. Thought I'd mention it ahead of my next proper post in case it was news to you, given you liked NC.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 11:25 am 


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BIL wrote:
The FC Senjou port is sadly really rough - handles like a dog. I wanted to pick up a copy (the posed figure boxart is so rad!), but just couldn't deal with the AC Super Contra-esque aim lag. Can't recall if the arcade original is like that too... regardless, without it the FC port would be a fun little rampage.


Assuming you're referring to the in-between shots your character makes when you change direction, then yes, it really breaks the game. I've tried the FC port first, and this was the exact reason I didn't think it was much fun.
In a game such as this, you absolutely need the instant aiming, otherwise you won't stand a chance. I initially thought the arcade game was like this too, but it's not, it plays magnificently.

I've started playing the arcade original, and perhaps because I've been playing Front Line for these past few days, it feels like such a massive improvement (fells even more that it already is) over it that it's not even funny.
It's got an improved character speed, many more enemies, you fire more & faster shots, has unique levels (instead of repeating a single one), has an actual soundtrack, etc.
In those 3 years between both games, Capcom really did wonders.

It is a bloody hard game though, and I've only managed to reach the 3rd level so far.
it's pretty damn fun, though, but I must admit that I miss the 8-way direction grenades that Front Line had.
Also no continues on the arcade version (at least the JP version I have), so if you want to get the ending, a 1CC is the only way to go. 8)

Another game I have my sights on, is Cabal (ARC).
The only Cabal-style game I had ever touched was Wild Guns (SFC), but very, very briefly. This is because, until a couple years, I always thought these kind of games (the arcade originals, at least) had some sort of unique controller that wouldn't translate well to a standard gamepad, and that the console games/ports were 'crippled' in some way, to be playable on a gamepad.
As it turns out, they are very fun to play, and quite unique in their single plane motion/dodging.

I've been ping-ponging between Senjou No Ookami and Cabal, and am really enjoying both of them.
I'll eventually post more when I have a more decent grasp on them.

EDIT:

Played Senjou No Ookami (ARC) for awhile, and managed to reach the Level 4 boss twice, but lost there both times.

Got a pic of the best score I got so far (at that same level 4 boss):

Image

That boss has two shooters/turrets on each side, that you have to immediately take out, or they will continue to spew a bullet stream towards you, until you die.
Also discovered that you die, if you touch the ravines in the start of stage 4 (I accidentally touched one of them, while going towards the bridge).

I was wrong before BIL, in that it is indeed possible to shoot in between the 8 cardinal direction in the arcade game, but it actually works very well here.
When you press the Shot button, the character will shoot 2 bullets, and if you tap it he will rapid-fire. The only actual way to shoot in that mid-way, is to wiggle the joystick left & right, so that you spray bullets in front of you, and that's where, sometimes, you'll shoot them that way. But the aiming is precise, no lag whatsoever, so I guess it's only one of those "2 bullets at a time" that goes in between directions, so the game still maintains that perfect, lag free aiming.

Overpasses in this game are very dangerous (and bridges as well, but not as much, in my opinion), as they force you to pass through a narrow opening, and not only are there enemies on top of it, throwing grenades at you, but enemies also spawn on the other side of it, behind the walls (where you can't shoot them), that will converge on your position. You can't also see enemy bullets in the actual tunnel (beneath the overpass), so it's quite easy to get blindsided here.

Overall, this game is quite hard, and it's pretty easy to die, even in the first stage. It is pretty damn fun, though. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:36 pm 


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From what I remember, Cabal actually uses a standard joystick.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:43 pm 


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BrianC wrote:
From what I remember, Cabal actually uses a standard joystick.


There's both joystick and trackball versions of Cabal.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:52 pm 


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Apologies, I edited my post, as there were no replies at the time, to avoid double posting. :oops:

BrianC wrote:
From what I remember, Cabal actually uses a standard joystick.


Ghegs wrote:
There's both joystick and trackball versions of Cabal.


Ah, yes yes, I'm aware, it's just, at the time, I always assumed, given the gameplay (the crosshair on-screen, over-the-shoulder perspective, etc), that Cabal-style games used some sort of special controller, and that the console ports (if there were any) were sort of a "lightgun/whatever game ported to gamepad" kind of thing, if that makes sense.
I've since learned that they actually use standard joysticks (or trackballs, but they're still perfectly playable on a gamepad) and buttons, but only very recently did I actually started playing them.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:46 pm 


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After 30+ years of trying on and off I finally beat Mr. X in Kung Fu Master, made it to 2-3.

Been close for a few years now. I would play it once or twice a year either upstate at the Strong Museum of Play or on Long Island at the Cradle of Aviation Retro Exhibit. Kept coming up short the last few times but not today :D
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:04 am 


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I may be mistaken, since it has been awhile since I have played, but the 7800 Commando controls are more like the arcade. It's less glitchy than the NES and has some of the extras of that version, while being based more on the arcade. Too bad the stock controller is hard on the hands. Actually, the NES/FC is probably my least favorite port of Senjo no Ookami/Commando. Even the Atari 2600 version is better.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:47 pm 


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BrianC wrote:
I may be mistaken, since it has been awhile since I have played, but the 7800 Commando controls are more like the arcade. It's less glitchy than the NES and has some of the extras of that version, while being based more on the arcade. Too bad the stock controller is hard on the hands. Actually, the NES/FC is probably my least favorite port of Senjo no Ookami/Commando. Even the Atari 2600 version is better.


I haven't tried the Atari 2600 port, but the 7800 one is indeed pretty good.
Although it is still a bit jerky, the controls are quite similar to the arcade, only you fire a single shot per button press, instead of two.
It also has powerups (a knife and a machinegun, at least), the machinegun giving you auto-fire, and the knife I'm not sure, but assume it should be some sort of close quarters combat capabilities (I still dies when enemies touched me anyway, so I'm not sure).
I believe the FC port had some secret areas (or so I've read), but I haven't played it, nor the 7800 ports enough to see if they both share those areas.

Like BIL said before, the FC port would've been awesome, if only they didn't greatly increase the time-window that you can use that "intermediate" shot. The aim is immediate, if you don't switch in diagonal increments (that is, if you aim in 90º chunks, then your character aims there immediately), but that is not very useful.

Honestly, when I first played the arcade original, I thought the 2-shots/tap happened because I had left Joy2Key open, and the game was registering 2 inputs at once, but if you think about it, it is pretty ingenious.

Because the time-window to perform that "intermediate" shot is so small, at the very least, one of those bullets will always go in one of the 8 cardinal directions, but the other may go into that "intermediate" position, if the timing is correct.
This way, you can sort of shoot in 16 directions (albeit trying to deliberately do so is hard, as it mostly happens when you're spraying bullets left and right), but it never feels like it has aim lag (and in fact it doesn't).
I find it easier to think of those "intermediate" shots as bonus shots in between your aimed ones.

Stevens wrote:
After 30+ years of trying on and off I finally beat Mr. X in Kung Fu Master, made it to 2-3.

Been close for a few years now. I would play it once or twice a year either upstate at the Strong Museum of Play or on Long Island at the Cradle of Aviation Retro Exhibit. Kept coming up short the last few times but not today :D


Congrats. :)
I also play this game every once in a while (never too much at once, only every so often), and the best I've ever done, was reaching the 4th stage's boss (the Magician guy).
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:54 pm 


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BrianC wrote:
I may be mistaken, since it has been awhile since I have played, but the 7800 Commando controls are more like the arcade. It's less glitchy than the NES and has some of the extras of that version, while being based more on the arcade. Too bad the stock controller is hard on the hands. Actually, the NES/FC is probably my least favorite port of Senjo no Ookami/Commando. Even the Atari 2600 version is better.

Just curious : how does the C64 port handles? if it plays good I might spend some time with it, even though it's super short. that loading screen music is just so damn godly... :shock: hearing that is always a good time


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:50 pm 


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After a couple absolutely crappy runs (in some, I didn't even reached the 3rd level), I managed to reach Level 7 in Senjou No Ookami (ARC).

Image

I managed to beat the 4th level's boss on the first try, which was very nice in itself, but also somehow, cleared the entire 5th level without losing a life.
Lost two consecutive lives on level 6, and finally got the game over on the 7th.

The second half of the game (from level 5 onwards) gets very hectic, and, to be honest, it's a miracle I managed to reach that far on that credit.

Apparently the game is divided in two, 4 stages parts, and at least stages 5, 6 and 7 are sort of "enhaced remakes" of the first three stages (set in the same stage theme, featuring similar (and sometimes the same) areas, but arranged differently), but quite a bit harder. Enemies get really trigger happy later on.

Anyway, due to the erratic spawning and behaviour of enemies, and the difficulty of the stages overall, I don't think I'll get the 1CC anytime soon, despite having reached the 7th level on that credit.

On Cabal (ARC) I've only managed to reach Level 2-2 so far, and it seemed to me that that very level got a decent spike in difficulty, suddenly having more enemies, two helicopters at once, etc.
One might think the rolling mechanic would make the game quite a bit easier, but with that many bullets on screen, you'll most likely just roll right into them, anyway.

Yet another one that I don't think I'll 1CC anytime soon. :lol:

EDIT: And god, do I hate overpasses in SNO...

EDIT2: Just found out (the worst way), besides the ravines in level 4, you also die by approaching the trenches from the side, in level 2.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:40 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
After 30+ years of trying on and off I finally beat Mr. X in Kung Fu Master, made it to 2-3.

Been close for a few years now. I would play it once or twice a year either upstate at the Strong Museum of Play or on Long Island at the Cradle of Aviation Retro Exhibit. Kept coming up short the last few times but not today :D


Congrats man, putting an old adversary to rest is always a great feeling ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:18 pm 


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__SKYe wrote:

Congrats. :)
I also play this game every once in a while (never too much at once, only every so often), and the best I've ever done, was reaching the 4th stage's boss (the Magician guy).


Skykid wrote:

Congrats man, putting an old adversary to rest is always a great feeling ;)


Thanks gents - a good feeling indeed.

Been toying with Vigilante too, but it just can't stand up to KFM. It has nice graphics, music, and sound, but the game play isn't nearly as tight.

Oh and the Magician is a bigger dick on 2-4.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:10 am 


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Just a little update on Cabal (ARC).

The first time I credit fed through it, it took me some 15 credits to get the clear.
Played it some more, and managed to reduce them to just 5, but the last one was avoidable, and was due to my lack of attention (I failed to pay attention to a bomber plane, and one of its bombs landed right on top of me).

I can now, pretty much beat all the bosses without dying, which is good, since in my first playthrough I used some 5~6 credits on them alone.

I find that it is best to stick to corners overall, and focus on the enemies that are on your side of the screen, as more often than not, the others won't shoot directly at you (it's not all roses, though, as they will eventually do so). I also got more used at destroying enemy greandes, and plane bombs, as it helps tremendously (especially the plane bombs).

Sticking to the corner has the nice advantage of you being able to roll without moving (if you roll to the side of the screen, you'll just roll in place). To do this effectively, though, you need to be able to roll just as the projectiles are reaching you, or you will die.
I'm still not quite perfect at this (I can do it more often than not, but it's still shaky), and often times, it is hard to gauge just how far/near the projectiles are fom you.

I absolutely love the "destroying background objects for point items" mechanic, as not only is it an awesome way to gain score, but it is also very useful to get extends. It also forces you to leave your safe corner (if you play like me, at least :mrgreen: ) and earn your points, so there's always that risk & reward thing going, and I believe it makes the game so much more fun for it.

As for actually getting the point items effectively, I find it easier to be on the same side of whatever you destroy, so that the item points land near you rather than far. And since they disappear pretty fast, and there's usually plenty of enemy fire going one, it's very useful to do it that way.

Anyway, it turned out to be a very fun game, and I'm glad I finally gave the genre a go.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:34 am 


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__SKYe wrote:
Just a little update on Cabal (ARC).


Cabal is a great game.

Played the shit out of it in middle school at the corner candy store. 12 year old me loved that you could shoot just about anything.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:23 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
Cabal is a great game.

Played the shit out of it in middle school at the corner candy store. 12 year old me loved that you could shoot just about anything.


Yes it is. I'm having a great time with it. :)

Incidentally, managed to reduce the credits to 3, and without losing any lives in that last one.
One a single credit, the best I've done so far, is reach Level 3-4.

Learned a few more things (or rather, fell prey to them :mrgreen: ).
Staying cooped up in a corner isn't actually that much of a good idea. I still believe it's preferable to always be near one of the corners of the screen, rather than the middle, but staying in the actual corners is too dangerous.

The "roll into the edge of the screen" still has it's uses, but not only is it hard to perform all the time, but it's very dangerous on slow moving bullets.

Speaking of slow bullets, they are very hard to dodge, because very often you'll either dodge too soon, and die anyway (because the bullet hasn't passed you yet), or dodge too late (and get hit by it, before you even roll).
The other, and perhaps the most dangerous of them all, are the ones that come excatly from the front, so you can't really tell if they're close or not. Diagonal shots (and preferably fast), are easier to dodge.

Tank shots are the easiest to avoid, as not only are they larger and destructible (much like enemy grenades, and the bosses' projectiles), but they also cast a shadow, so it's easier to tell where they are.

Helicopters usually fire a stream of bullets in a single direction (in the same lane, so you just need to stay clear of it), and sometimes they change lanes mid-shooting (also not too tough do dodge, as you still have time to react to the later direction, if it is coming towards you).
However, sometimes they pull of a really dick move, in that they fire the stream in a single direction, but change it at the last moment, to your direction! I've died a few times like this, and and it's pretty bumming.

The bosses remain more or less the easiest part of the game, but you still need to be careful, and preferably carry plenty of grenades, so that they go down fast.
Should you die, however, you'll have to restart the fight, without the grenades you've already spent, so be careful.

Also, and this may sound silly, but only today did I notice that the "ENEMY" bar (that normally displays how many enemies you need to kill before the next screen) changes to "FOE" during the boss battles, and displays their health. :oops:

-----

As for Senjou No Ookami, I can still only rarely reach Stage 5. Stage 3 is perhaps harder than stages 4 and 5 (and probably 6 as well).
In the first section, there's so little room to evade, and so many enemy spawn points, that it's very easy to get shot dead. Then of scourse, there's a freking underpass... I hate those things. :evil:
The 2nd section is even worse, with those damn trucks, and the bikes/jeeps that come from the side, forcing you to pretty much go down the middle lane, where you have to dodge a crapload of bullets. The boss is the easier part.

As for the stage 4 boss, as long as you destroy the turrets fast (and I mean "fast"), it isn't any harder than all the others before it.

That's about it, I'll post more later. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:28 pm 


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I'm think I may give Cabal a go again after all this reading about it. I wonder if I will still like it? You're making some good progress.

Not everything from childhood (that you loved) ages well, Ikari Warriors/Victory Road? Can't play them anymore. Yie Ar Kung Fu? Play it once every other month without fail. Speaking of - Blues is my other longtime rival who has been tormenting me since the mid 80's.

That fight feels random as fuck though.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:24 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
I'm think I may give Cabal a go again after all this reading about it. I wonder if I will still like it? You're making some good progress.

Not everything from childhood (that you loved) ages well, Ikari Warriors/Victory Road? Can't play them anymore.


I'd wager you'll still enjoy it.
Unlike many old games (Ikari Warriors being one of them, though, in my opinion, it was never that good to begin with :wink: ), I believe Cabal has aged very well, especially in the gameplay department.
In my opinion, it is amazing that, as *the* genre defining game, it does almost everything right: both the bosses and the music could be a little more varied, but they're both still quite enjoyable.

Stevens wrote:
Yie Ar Kung Fu? Play it once every other month without fail. Speaking of - Blues is my other longtime rival who has been tormenting me since the mid 80's.


I haven't played the arcade original much, but I love the Famicom port, and have previously achieved a 24-ALL (reached Stage 121, rolling over both the stage and score counters along the way :mrgreen: ).

There are indeed games like that, that are always fun to play no matter how long you've been doing it.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:13 pm 


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Started doing one-weapon challenge runs of J.J. Squawkers on stream last night, some pretty rad shit in doing that. Tomato-only I did a long time ago, it's nothing special since that's generally the easiest way to clear the game. Last night I did peas-only after 3 tries, the final boss (both forms, on both loops) is a fucking nightmare due to the short range. Almost got screw-only after that, but decided to play other stuff, likely could clear it next time I try.

Half excited and half terrified for doing spring-only, being the hardest weapon to use for most of the game. Once I do all these, I guess I gotta start doing stuff like no power shot, lest I run out of things to do with this game again :lol: Peas-only definitely reaffirmed that this is probably my favorite game period, just sad how lacking the game is in ways to play beyond a 1CC.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:35 pm 


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Oof, busy summer and backlog pilin' up. Been pottering about with FC sidescrollers here and there. Mostly stuff that's been on my shortlist for ages pending proper evaluation. Quite content with my collection atm TBH.

Image

Sword Master (1990 Athena) More like Hop Master. 3; Long been tempted by this one's luxuriant parallax, rocking BGM and grimly medieval aesthetic. Now, I am always down for a committedly XTREME boss rush concept game, ala 2010 Street Fighter and Alien Soldier. Sadly, while SM's pace and focus is comparably intense, its action is simply too lightweight to compete. Hopping dominates proceedings utterly - falling [Up+B] chops to attack, retreating hops to escape reprisal range, and a triangular advance/chop/retreat pattern to maintain pressure... it's not without finesse or groove, but it can't shoulder a whole game; and yet you'd be a fool not to preface every act with those rabbity hops. Stages alternate between Spartan-esque flatland, and mildly treacherous platforming; the former's relentless hop/chop is grueling, the latter are over in a flash (and lacking Spartan's pincer/mixup pressures).

FUNNY STOLY: After an hour or so, I was really getting the hang of bopping bosses square on the brainbox with falling chops for maximum, often insta-killing damage! (the sword does contact damage per-frame) I was all "though the reliance on falling chops is undeniably one-note, the requisite finesse and resultant pace gives an addictive groove - also dat parallax and BGM and super-tight runtime, imma get this." BUT THEN! I noticed I was nailing them bosses a little too quickly. Like "blowing away 1337 TASers" too quickly. And wouldn't you know it! The game (FC ver tested) doesn't reset your EXP between credits, or even soft resets. Gotta power off/on for a fresh start, otherwise the game will get progressively easier over time. AWW HELL NAWW/phew, that was close! Oh Athena. This really is Dragon Unit 2 isn't it. Image When you're good you're pretty fuckin great but other times... :shock:

trap15 wrote:
Started doing one-weapon challenge runs of J.J. Squawkers on stream last night, some pretty rad shit in doing that.


Unintentional Athena combo BTW :wink:

Also on the suspect coding front, the rocketing triple jump - fun trick, or perhaps glitch, that even Funkdoc notes is brutally difficult to perform consistently. Autofire will get it out every time, but eh. That's like playing Double Dragon II FC with autofire for EZ kneezy. Actually, maybe not. DDII's knee timing is absolutely mild compared to SM's triple jump.

Image

You too my dudes. ;-;7 Game's quite enjoyable despite the foiled aspiration of hardcore boss action, mind. Sumptuously produced, with one of my favourite sidescrolling zombies ever.

Image

Poor fucker looks ruined. Head and upper body lolling groundward, arms askew and sickeningly palsied, feet dragging flat... I like my undead with a degree of pathos; broken, ravaged bodies impelled by ruthless force to rise and lash out. In a peppier mode, Vampire Killer zombies are also exemplary. Look at those rotten puce-toned sods flinging themselves onward in the target's general direction! That's not the gait of a healthy individual! Also, sometimes there is a pesky fly who scarpers at the first sign of trouble.

Spoiler: show
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BTW fuck Game of Thrones' lame-ass weightless ninja skeleton wights, they suck. Dangerous but boring!

JUDGMENT: hop hop hoppin along to shaweet tunes and deluxe parallax. Would almost be tempted to pick it up, but its action is just too limited and tiring. So much so, I noticed a bit of Holy Diver syndrome afterward. This is the affliction where an exceptionally idiosyncratic game causes you to play others like it afterward! Took a while to stop compulsively feathering A before B in other stuff. Fucking hell, you know just watching footage of myself playing HD instantly reactivates the hard-wired workarounds? I'd almost sell it up. 3;
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Last edited by BIL on Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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