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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:17 pm 


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I think they both came out at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:51 pm 



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They did. And personally I find the pad on the original Wii CC equally meh, so it's likely we're talking about personal preferences with the same design.

Dave, sometimes pads do "break in". I don't mind my Pro as much as when I first got it, but that could just be me getting used to it - it's not a night-and-day difference at all. Try fiddling with it and randomly rocking the D-pad around when you're just sitting watching TV and stuff. If it's going to loosen up this will get you there quicker.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:54 pm 


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bigbadboaz wrote:
They did. And personally I find the pad on the original Wii CC equally meh, so it's likely we're talking about personal preferences with the same design.

Dave, sometimes pads do "break in". I don't mind my Pro as much as when I first got it, but that could just be me getting used to it - it's not a night-and-day difference at all. Try fiddling with it and randomly rocking the D-pad around when you're just sitting watching TV and stuff. If it's going to loosen up this will get you there quicker.


Good advice; thank you! :D
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:06 am 


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Sumez wrote:
"The best new platform game made since Mario Galaxy", no contest.

"The best new platform game made since Mario Galaxy" isn't saying much, though. On the Wii alone, I liked Kororinpa 1&2 as well as A Shadow's Tale better than Galaxy. 2D platform-wise, it's hardly imaginable nothing released at least on PC wouldn't appeal to me more than the latter, either. As a matter on fact, the latest new platform game I liked better than Super Mario Galaxy came out for Sega Master System last year (admittedly - three years after Legends, therefore I digress at this point).
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:28 am 


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I'm not sure your points really make any sense in this context, since you apparently didn't like Mario Galaxy much, which is a shame. I honestly think Galaxy is one of the very best games ever made, it's incredible, well designed, and super creative, with a solid focus on gameplay over exploration or backtracking. A true comeback for Mario after the somewhat lackluster (though still "good") Sunshine.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:26 pm 


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If that helps - Bara Burū is freeware (as are countless 2D platformers released for PC, which I doubt a single person has played all of). Now, if I can't name a 3D Mario-style platform game newer than Super Mario Galaxy I liked any better, that's primarily because I haven't played any, albeit for a reason different from your average 3D Mario apologist's reason.

Furthermore, I admit Super Mario 3D World looks like one fun game to me.
Regarding my last notion of Hudson Soft games exclusively for the Wii, I just read about their Mario Bros. remake released A.D. 1984 for a number of computers (NEC PC-6001mkII, NEC PC-6601, NEC PC-8801, FM-7 and Sharp X1 according to English Wikipedia) called Mario Bros. Special. Anybody here played that one?
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:44 pm 


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"3D Mario apologist"? Care to elaborate?

As for Mario 3D World, it's a fun game, and extremely entertaining with 4 players co-op if you can ever assemble that. But it's a low-tier production and nowhere near the masterpiece that Galaxy was.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:11 pm 



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Obiwanshinobi wrote:
Bara Burū


What a lovely, charming game.

Does the Master System's homebrew library redeem the lackluster sales it had in its heyday? (Outside of Europe and South America, of course.)
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:53 am 


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This is actually the first time I've even heard of any Master System homebrew games, not counting the usual nerdy digging into the hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:27 pm 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
Does the Master System's homebrew library redeem the lackluster sales it had in its heyday? (Outside of Europe and South America, of course.)


No. There aren't that many and most of them are very simplistic. There are some nice GG to SMS hacks, though. I feel the system already has a good enough library to make up for the poor sales. Not to mention that most of the better EU exclusives are fully playable on US hardware at what is most likely the correct speed.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:51 pm 


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Most of what I've seen has been very simplistic too. However there was a full professional (albeit very limited) release for Digger Chan back in about 2011. It's a major upgrade on the old demo version and is a fun little game, better than a lot of retail SMS titles but still obviously not on the same technical level as a licensed release. I don't know if the full cart version is "out there" though so it's probably a costly one to try out, not sure if more were or will be made.

The selection of PAL exclusives easily redeem the lackluster early US/JP sales anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:49 am 


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Sumez wrote:
"3D Mario apologist"? Care to elaborate?

Whenever a person calls anything 3D Mario (any genre at all) a "masterpiece", they don't betray having much experience with any real competition those games had in their time. How many buyers of Sunshine even played Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg? If the sales figures of both are any indication, hardly anybody has had.

Sumez wrote:
As for Mario 3D World, it's a fun game, and extremely entertaining with 4 players co-op if you can ever assemble that. But it's a low-tier production and nowhere near the masterpiece that Galaxy was.

I've only played the 1st Galaxy and found it a rushed patchwork of a game (only the music and character animations had met my expecations). Particularly some ball rolling stage (controlled with a Wiimote held pointed upwards) gave me a strong impression its makers didn't even play Kororinpa, that - even with Nintendo's usual pretending they don't compete against anybody kept in mind - was a tad too much to stomach for me.
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:15 am 


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Obiwanshinobi wrote:
Whenever a person calls anything 3D Mario (any genre at all) a "masterpiece", they don't betray having much experience with any real competition those games had in their time. How many buyers of Sunshine even played Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg? If the sales figures of both are any indication, hardly anybody has had.

Uhm, but Mario Galaxy IS a masterpiece (and Sunshine is absolutely not!).
It is leaps and bounds above any other game in the genre. In fact, despite the huge amount of 3D platformers we got towards the end of the "32 bit" generation, most of them were mediocre at best - I would like to be a fan of the genre, but it has an incredibly bumpy record, with games usually sporting flaws such as repetition, tedious backtracking or awkward controls. Super Mario 64, despite being pretty much the first real game in the genre, is still the best of those by a long shot. Billy Hatcher is a decent game, but it's not even close to the Mario games. You don't have to be an "apologist" to appreciate 3D Mario games. These are amazingly well designed games, and you shouldn't discount them just because it's Mario, and easily comes across as over-hyped.

Obiwanshinobi wrote:
I've only played the 1st Galaxy and found it a rushed patchwork of a game (only the music and character animations had met my expecations). Particularly some ball rolling stage (controlled with a Wiimote held pointed upwards) gave me a strong impression its makers didn't even play Kororinpa, that - even with Nintendo's usual pretending they don't compete against anybody kept in mind - was a tad too much to stomach for me.

I found the wiimote waggle stages inoffensive, but they should be ignored. Someone at Nintendo wanted to justify their stupid motion controls, so they put that in there. It doesn't really feel like a part of the game. Everything else is superb.

Basically, in Sunshine I got fed up with the huge exploration levels with extremely little focus on gameplay, but it had those very few, short challenge stages which were entirely abstract and much, much more fun to play. Galaxy felt like an expansion of that concept, and was what the series needed (compared to that, Odyssey seems to be moving in the completely wrong direction).


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:15 pm 


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I incidentally just started a Mario Sunshine replay, and it is indeed not a masterpiece at all. The tropical setting and the music are really enjoyable, the Nozzles can be fun to toy with and the water looks absolutely friggin' goddamn gorgeous. However, the game's missions are often boring or tedious. The bonus FLUDD-less stages fare better but are far from perfect due to the overly-sensitive movement controls. Trying to stay on those white rotating cubes for instance is made harder than it should be with Mario twitching like mad at the mere touch of the analog stick.

It is has been a long time since I last played both Galaxies, but I remember liking them way more. One thing that kinda bothered me though is that the stages are mostly short obstacle courses but are presented in-game as expansive Mario 64-style worlds the size of planets. The contrast is kinda unsettling as no level made a long-lasting impression despite being technically solid. I also prefered Mario 64's movement abilities and jumps. The side-somersault in particular was really fun to use in that game because you could easily trigger it even in a pinch. Unfortunately, they kept nerfing it afterwards and you really have to be deliberate to use it.
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:32 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Someone at Nintendo wanted to justify their stupid motion controls, so they put that in there.

And yet before that saw daylight, someone at Hudson Soft came up with Kororinpa and bang! - it worked a treat (yes it is a 3D platform game, as is the original Super Monkey Ball - both playable on the same Wii Galaxy is for).

M.Knight wrote:
One thing that kinda bothered me though is that the stages are mostly short obstacle courses but are presented in-game as expansive Mario 64-style worlds the size of planets.

One of my problems with Galaxies, too. A thing video games, especially "3D" sort, are briliant at is building vast architecture we've no chance of witnessing in real world. Even otherwise pedestrian 3D platformers like Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc gave me slices of architectural grandeur Galaxies didn't even attempt to. Likewise, the genre's usual problems with camera controls (in Galaxies' case extra-problematic due to the lack of a second analogue stick) are sidestepped here by the aforementioned, "fractured" stage design. As a matter of fact, the most interesting bits of Galaxies to me were those where I was forced to adjust the camera manually (which was precious little fun due to the game's camera controls, but they at least tried to compete at last).
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:33 am 


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Sumez wrote:
Obiwanshinobi wrote:
Whenever a person calls anything 3D Mario (any genre at all) a "masterpiece", they don't betray having much experience with any real competition those games had in their time. How many buyers of Sunshine even played Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg? If the sales figures of both are any indication, hardly anybody has had.

Uhm, but Mario Galaxy IS a masterpiece (and Sunshine is absolutely not!).



You're having an argument with someone who literally has the worst track record for taste in everything I've probably ever encountered. He rates Michael Jordan and the Windy City incredibly highly and thinks Akira suffers from poor animation.

I wouldn't bother tbh.
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:43 pm 


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I gave up when he started claiming the game has camera issues ;)


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:51 pm 


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Not so much "the game has camera issues", though, as I simply don't like moving it around using d-pad in analogue stick's stead, hence I found the stages where it was necessary "interesting" rather than "fun". The ones where it wasn't needed are more playable, yet "mostly short obstacle courses" indeed.*
I would prefer a "camera button" that, when pressed, would allow me to control the camera using remote. It's not like such a thing has never been done in a TPP game on the Wii (Pandora's Tower and Metroid: Other M spring to mind). Likewise, ask anybody whether they liked digital camera controls in Xenoblade Chronicles or The Last Story better than analogue stick controls. At least since Jak & Daxter, a console TPP game engine of this kind feels incomplete without manual camera mapped onto left strick and merely tying it to d-pad is pretending there was no need to come up with a new solution.

*) As such, the aforementioned Kororinpa and original Super Monkey Ball did a much better job for my money, all without pretending to be anything but.
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:54 pm 


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Nah, I agree that Mario Galaxy is boring. The games have nothing going for them besides nice art and graphics. I think I like every other Mario game I've ever played more, besides the original NSMB.
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:59 pm 


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You didn't like original NSMB? Why? :idea:
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:21 pm 


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I thought the first NSMB was pretty boring, too. It felt like they didn't know what to do with it, and just threw a bunch of ideas in there without ever really designing stages around them. The Wii one was way more ambitious, well designed and general fun to play. Both games are very easy, but at least the Wii one had some cool challenges to go for.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:22 pm 


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I played it for like two days 10 years ago so I can't really tell you anything specifically. I just didn't think there was anything interesting about it. Not a bad game, just boring. Like Galaxy.

FWIW I've only played NSMB and NSMBU in the 'New' series and I thought U was excellent.
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:52 pm 


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I might add that on the Wii, NSMB's most direct competition was - surprise, surprise - Rayman Origins. Which did very little wrong, except its 2D vector graphics don't scale too nicely down to 640i (letterboxed 16:9, I think). Nevertheles, the latter's gameplay is extremely solid (shump stages seem to have more input lag than I like in my shmup, but it's a very minor complaint, all things considered).
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:01 pm 


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Do you think you might be able to stop mentioning Rayman in almost every post you make?

I know the Excite Trick era has past, but for the love of God.
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:15 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I thought the first NSMB was pretty boring, too. It felt like they didn't know what to do with it, and just threw a bunch of ideas in there without ever really designing stages around them. The Wii one was way more ambitious, well designed and general fun to play. Both games are very easy, but at least the Wii one had some cool challenges to go for.


Glad I'm not the only one who wasn't crazy about NSMB :)
Was expecting something more similar to Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World but nope... ran it all back to the original which I didn't care for all too much.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:34 am 


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NSMB DS isn't bad, but it's my least favorite of the NSMB games. NSMB2 isn't the most challenging of the games, but I found the level designs to be solid. Too bad the most challenging levels of that game are DLC exclusives. I also liked the Wii and WiiU games quite a bit and liked how they added four player modes.

Shelcoof wrote:
Was expecting something more similar to Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World but nope... ran it all back to the original which I didn't care for all too much.


Disagree here. NSMB is not quite the same as 3 and World, but still has some elements from them and isn't as arcade like as the original SMB.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:21 am 


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It's not like any of them. I assume what Shelcoof meant is that it goes back to a linear simplicity similar to the original SMB, which is also what I felt. The stages don't have any of the minor exploration aspects added with SMB3, and never really manage to develop much personality.
I really love the original SMB, and it's a very tightly designed game with a focus on gameplay and level design - NSMB is not like that at all though, it does have a lot of variations in stage design with the way it just throws in a bunch of ideas in every other stage - but it only just manages to demonstrate them rather than build a good stage around them, something its successors (and 3D World) would do much better. Also the big mushroom is the worst idea ever in a platform game.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:26 am 


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I'm helping a person who doesn't play games much play through NSMB at the moment, which is the reason I asked your opinions. I finished it 100% when it came out, but revisiting it now is bringing back a lot of memories of playing through it.

I remember it being a very nicely rounded game with plenty of variety. It wasn't difficult enough, but the challenge rose considerably and became a lot more intricate if you attempt to find all three stars and open the two hidden worlds.

I think it's better than you guys are giving it credit for, at least, but I hear Wii U NSMB is a cut above and I'm hoping to play that soon. I expect it to be better than Rayman.

I thought Galaxy was kind of an amazing take on the platforming concept done brilliantly well. I found it slow for the first third and didn't like the overworld at all, but the stage design was pure gaming beauty and it came through with magnificence before it was over.
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:36 pm 


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I don't remember NSMB standing out to me much in any particular way. I ran through it in a couple of sittings many years ago. I guess I had fun, but nothing about it really stuck with me. I didn't 100% it though, so if I didn't experience the toughest it had to offer, maybe that's why.

I played the hell out of NSMB U though and kept going back to that one. Speaking of which, I need to run through it again soon.

I picked up NSMB2 on the 3DS last year as well. I think the coin gimmick worked in the game's favor, as it made it feel a lot more "over the top" in many cases compared to the original.
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 Post subject: Re: The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:50 am 


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BrianC wrote:
NSMB DS isn't bad, but it's my least favorite of the NSMB games. NSMB2 isn't the most challenging of the games, but I found the level designs to be solid. Too bad the most challenging levels of that game are DLC exclusives. I also liked the Wii and WiiU games quite a bit and liked how they added four player modes.

Shelcoof wrote:
Was expecting something more similar to Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World but nope... ran it all back to the original which I didn't care for all too much.


Disagree here. NSMB is not quite the same as 3 and World, but still has some elements from them and isn't as arcade like as the original SMB.


I guess I was expecting much more from NSMB. I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy playing it. I actually cleared it with 100% in a day.

Regarding the rest of the NSMB for Wii and Wii U I hadn't played them much. I dropped NSMB Wii after I cleared the first stage... totally lost my interest.... I should probably give them a chance at some point in the future.


Sumez wrote:
It's not like any of them. I assume what Shelcoof meant is that it goes back to a linear simplicity similar to the original SMB, which is also what I felt.


Yes that is how I felt exactly :)


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