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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:03 pm 


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Turrican wrote:
I don't have netflix and so I'm not watching this stuff but...

It seems to me that we're witnessing a small miracle. They're handling a license, and they're *not* fucking it beyond repair.


Don't get your hopes up, it's FAR from great.

I'm nearly done with this now and I can honestly say I've figured out a good reason for not showing this to kids: It's so FUCKING BORING.

What's going on these days? Don't scriptwriters have any idea how to have fun? Not least with material that comes from a video game? A guy with a whip destroying the undead and mythological monsters is all you need to get the juices flowing, but somehow they always have to make it as serious as they possibly can. Politics, church and state, Christianity, ancient sects... who gives a shit? I want that stuff to be periphery; window dressing - not taking up giant slabs of what's supposed to be an entertaining story. In the third episode it starts with an action sequence that's ok for the two minutes it lasts, and then it goes back to lengthy, tiring, trite and pointless waffling that brings absolutely nothing to Castlevania lore or the show itself. Nobody fucking cares, stop procrastinating.

The script is woeful, to be fair. It's completely uninspiring, and at no point does it ever actually become 'fun'. What's up with that? Is it so difficult to have a gothic fantasy world that we can have fun with, rather than endless gloom and doomspeak? It doesn't help that Trevor Belmont's voice actor is frankly shit. Totally miscast and terrible at dropping any decent one liner, he's as mopey and boring as everything else. He's weak, doesn't instil any belief in the 'manly' lines he keeps mumbling out, and is frankly kind of embarrassing. Way to go, that's a good way to fuck up your show.

Sorry folks, but I'm not feeling it. I *know* what fun feels like, and I know how entertainment that does it right gets it right, and this ain't making the grade.

At first glance it seems like they've done it some justice. But pay closer attention and it's just feeble. The same old errors they seem to make time and time again in attempting to revisit much loved material and update it somehow.

I wouldn't say it sucks, but come on, open your eyes: it's really not very good.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:07 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
Turrican wrote:
I don't have netflix and so I'm not watching this stuff but...

It seems to me that we're witnessing a small miracle. They're handling a license, and they're *not* fucking it beyond repair.


Don't get your hopes up, it's FAR from great.


a good half of Castlevania is far from great: (MSX2, Adventure, DraculaXX, the N64 ones, Legacy). Then (2010) the horror happened and it went from "far from great" to FUBAR status.

Given the premises, it's a victory that this stuff is not FUBAR.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:20 pm 


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All the action scenes were terribly boring. I would hate the show if it were just that.


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:36 pm 


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Turrican wrote:
Skykid wrote:
Turrican wrote:
I don't have netflix and so I'm not watching this stuff but...

It seems to me that we're witnessing a small miracle. They're handling a license, and they're *not* fucking it beyond repair.


Don't get your hopes up, it's FAR from great.


a good half of Castlevania is far from great: (MSX2, Adventure, DraculaXX, the N64 ones, Legacy). Then (2010) the horror happened and it went from "far from great" to FUBAR status.

Given the premises, it's a victory that this stuff is not FUBAR.



Ha ha, shit is so bad these days I can see why people are so easy to please! Basically your expectations are so far below sea level that you'll take anything you can get.


Sumez wrote:
All the action scenes were terribly boring. I would hate the show if it were just that.


Please - I don't believe anyone was genuinely "engrossed" by 20 minutes of badly written, verbose procrastination that was meant to round characters and form 'plot', neither of which are achieved successfully.

Sometimes less is so much more. As soon as these piss poor screenwriters and unimaginative visualists figure that out the better.

You can see what you want to see, and convince yourselves that it's really good if that's what you want.
But the reality is that it's error ridden in execution and dull as dishwater for the most part.

For perspective, I've seen episodes of Duck Tales that absolutely destroy this for mystery, intrigue, adventure, personality, animation quality, and entertainment. Now consider that and think about whether they've done the Castlevania license justice.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:51 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
For perspective, I've seen episodes of Duck Tales that absolutely destroy this for
Mystery, intrigue, adventure, personality, animation quality, and entertainment. Now consider that and think about whether they've done the Castlevania license justice.


Some might say the same about the Duck Tales video game, but that doesn't make Castlevania and it's offspring less enjoyable as a games. :wink:

Take it for what it is, just 85 minutes of enjoyable non pretentious tv. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:53 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
Ha ha, shit is so bad these days I can see why people are so easy to please! Basically your expectations are so far below sea level that you'll take anything you can get.


Yeah... I'm that pessimist. Actually, my biggest hope for this netflix series is that it *doesn't* spark an interest in Konami to resurrect the series in videogames. Because I couldn't survive another rape of it.

If the show's good on its terms, all is well. But please no more mediocre videogames from clueless people. Let it rest.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:59 pm 


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Super Laydock wrote:
Take it for what it is, just 85 minutes of enjoyable non pretentious tv. :)


Exactly.
I'm with Turrican here. It may be setting my expectations lower than they should be, but the mere fact that this series is enjoyable, hell, the mere fact that it's not a disaster, is itself a victory.


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:03 pm 


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I'm personally happy that it's more context-building/story than action. The action ratio is perfectly fine to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:05 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Super Laydock wrote:
Take it for what it is, just 85 minutes of enjoyable non pretentious tv. :)


Exactly.
I'm with Turrican here. It may be setting my expectations lower than they should be, but the mere fact that this series is enjoyable, hell, the mere fact that it's not a disaster, is itself a victory.



Dunno what you watched, because it's pretentious as fuck. That's its biggest problem, trying to field ideas above its station.

But I get it: you think it's shit, but because it's not THAT shit it's actually all good.

If you never demand better you'll never get it folks!
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:09 pm 


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Also : how many videogames adaptations have worked out well in the history of forever?
Needless to say, my expectations for this show were very low. But I was pleasantly surprised, it's at worst a very decent series so far(I personally consider it "good") and I'm very happy with how it turned out. I really enjoy watching it.


Last edited by FinalBaton on Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:10 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Also : how many videogames adaptations have worked out well in the history of forever?
Needless to say, my expectations for this show were very low. But I was pleasantly surprised, it's at worst a very decent series so far(I personally consider it "good") and I'm very happy with how it turned out.


I rest my case.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:10 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
Turrican wrote:
I don't have netflix and so I'm not watching this stuff but...

It seems to me that we're witnessing a small miracle. They're handling a license, and they're *not* fucking it beyond repair.


Don't get your hopes up, it's FAR from great.

I'm nearly done with this now and I can honestly say I've figured out a good reason for not showing this to kids: It's so FUCKING BORING.

What's going on these days? Don't scriptwriters have any idea how to have fun? Not least with material that comes from a video game? A guy with a whip destroying the undead and mythological monsters is all you need to get the juices flowing, but somehow they always have to make it as serious as they possibly can. Politics, church and state, Christianity, ancient sects... who gives a shit? I want that stuff to be periphery; window dressing - not taking up giant slabs of what's supposed to be an entertaining story. In the third episode it starts with an action sequence that's ok for the two minutes it lasts, and then it goes back to lengthy, tiring, trite and pointless waffling that brings absolutely nothing to Castlevania lore or the show itself. Nobody fucking cares, stop procrastinating.

The script is woeful, to be fair. It's completely uninspiring, and at no point does it ever actually become 'fun'. What's up with that? Is it so difficult to have a gothic fantasy world that we can have fun with, rather than endless gloom and doomspeak? It doesn't help that Trevor Belmont's voice actor is frankly shit. Totally miscast and terrible at dropping any decent one liner, he's as mopey and boring as everything else. He's weak, doesn't instil any belief in the 'manly' lines he keeps mumbling out, and is frankly kind of embarrassing. Way to go, that's a good way to fuck up your show.

Sorry folks, but I'm not feeling it. I *know* what fun feels like, and I know how entertainment that does it right gets it right, and this ain't making the grade.

At first glance it seems like they've done it some justice. But pay closer attention and it's just feeble. The same old errors they seem to make time and time again in attempting to revisit much loved material and update it somehow.

I wouldn't say it sucks, but come on, open your eyes: it's really not very good.

it's not fun, it's serious business (for Western cartoons)
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Last edited by Durandal on Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:13 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:
Also : how many videogames adaptations have worked out well in the history of forever?
Needless to say, my expectations for this show were very low. But I was pleasantly surprised, it's at worst a very decent series so far(I personally consider it "good") and I'm very happy with how it turned out.


I rest my case.

I said that it was good. Your point doesn't apply to my post


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:15 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
Turrican wrote:
I don't have netflix and so I'm not watching this stuff but...

It seems to me that we're witnessing a small miracle. They're handling a license, and they're *not* fucking it beyond repair.


Don't get your hopes up, it's FAR from great.

I'm nearly done with this now and I can honestly say I've figured out a good reason for not showing this to kids: It's so FUCKING BORING.

What's going on these days? Don't scriptwriters have any idea how to have fun? Not least with material that comes from a video game? A guy with a whip destroying the undead and mythological monsters is all you need to get the juices flowing, but somehow they always have to make it as serious as they possibly can. Politics, church and state, Christianity, ancient sects... who gives a shit? I want that stuff to be periphery; window dressing - not taking up giant slabs of what's supposed to be an entertaining story. In the third episode it starts with an action sequence that's ok for the two minutes it lasts, and then it goes back to lengthy, tiring, trite and pointless waffling that brings absolutely nothing to Castlevania lore or the show itself. Nobody fucking cares, stop procrastinating.

The script is woeful, to be fair. It's completely uninspiring, and at no point does it ever actually become 'fun'. What's up with that? Is it so difficult to have a gothic fantasy world that we can have fun with, rather than endless gloom and doomspeak? It doesn't help that Trevor Belmont's voice actor is frankly shit. Totally miscast and terrible at dropping any decent one liner, he's as mopey and boring as everything else. He's weak, doesn't instil any belief in the 'manly' lines he keeps mumbling out, and is frankly kind of embarrassing. Way to go, that's a good way to fuck up your show.

Sorry folks, but I'm not feeling it. I *know* what fun feels like, and I know how entertainment that does it right gets it right, and this ain't making the grade.

At first glance it seems like they've done it some justice. But pay closer attention and it's just feeble. The same old errors they seem to make time and time again in attempting to revisit much loved material and update it somehow.

I wouldn't say it sucks, but come on, open your eyes: it's really not very good.

jesus christ, calm down

just because you thought it was shit, doesn't mean it is shit.
you're not the be all, end all of movie critics, the only opinion on this show we need to consider.


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:35 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
If you never demand better you'll never get it folks!


If we want good TV we demand it to David Lynch.
If we want good Castlevania, we just look into the past.
If we want revenge for misdeeds, we cross fingers that Konami will go bankrupt someday. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:45 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Also : how many videogames adaptations have worked out well in the history of forever?

Darkstalkers' animu is pretty rad.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:45 pm 


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Quote:
jesus christ, calm down

just because you thought it was shit, doesn't mean it is shit.
you're not the be all, end all of movie critics, the only opinion on this show we need to consider.


I'm completely calm :|

Just because someone gives a critical appraisal of something doesn't mean they're flummoxed. And just because you think something is good, certainly doesn't mean that it is. I know little to nothing about your taste in things generally to be able to know if you have a credible angle here.

So far I've given detailed reasoning and analysis of the show to back up my opinion of it. You haven't done anything to tell me what is actually good about it? Is it the dialogue? The plot? The voice acting? The character design? The animation? What?

No need to get your balls in a twist because someone shoots down your beloved 'entertainment' in flames; you need to defend it with facts.

As such, I'm all ears.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:01 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
I'm completely calm :|

Just because someone gives a critical appraisal of something doesn't mean they're flummoxed. And just because you think something is good, certainly doesn't mean that it is. I know little to nothing about your taste in things generally to be able to know if you have a credible angle here.

So far I've given detailed reasoning and analysis of the show to back up my opinion of it. You haven't done anything to tell me what is actually good about it? Is it the dialogue? The plot? The voice acting? The character design? The animation? What?

No need to get your balls in a twist because someone shoots down your beloved 'entertainment' in flames; you need to defend it with facts.

As such, I'm all ears.

first of all, I have already stated what I like about the show. In my first post on page 35. Here it is again :

FinalBaton wrote:
I LOVED how the characters come together. and their relationship with one another. That was so interesting

I liked the base storyline a ton, with the Christian Church (bishop) being the true culprit for the murder of Drac's wife but of course the Church blames that on a scapegoat: the Speakers. (Trevor outted the Church as fuck in Gista, lol). I think this is a really cool backdrop for the series.

The initial tension between Trevor and Alucard was cool as fuck because Trevor's familly has been hunting vampires for generations, so of course he doesn't trust a vampire even though he's supposed to be his teammate. That fight was well done btw.




Second of all, it's your tone that I don't like. Your "you guys are content with shit" tone.
You can have whatever opinion about the show you like, but keep that tone to yourself :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:13 pm 


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Aaaanyways... to be fair, the Duck Tales analogy is disingenuous because you're comparing two completely different styles of shows, and the fact the DT was written originally for TV the adapted to a game. Castlevania is the other way around. Let's face it, games have crappy stories, and it's difficult to adapt a game to full-fledge series or feature. But I would say this Castlevania adaptation is good given the track record of games-to-film/tv transitions. Is it great? Perfect? No. Maybe not. Is it good for s majority of people, I'd wager yes. And so would the Netflix big-wigs since they did approve a second double length season.
But the perspective here is, it's only 4 episodes so far. It's got lots of room to grow, improve, or completely blunder. But as it is now, it definitely is better than a lot of anime/cartoon series' after 4 episodes.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:27 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
I LOVED how the characters come together. and their relationship with one another. That was so interesting

I liked the base storyline a ton, with the Christian Church (bishop) being the true culprit for the murder of Drac's wife but of course the Church blames that on a scapegoat: the Speakers. (Trevor outted the Church as fuck in Gista, lol). I think this is a really cool backdrop for the series.

The initial tension between Trevor and Alucard was cool as fuck because Trevor's familly has been hunting vampires for generations, so of course he doesn't trust a vampire even though he's supposed to be his teammate. That fight was well done btw.


I pretty much feel the same way about the show. My brother and I watched it the other night, and as long time fans of the series, we both thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah, I have some minor gripes and some things I personally would have done differently, but all in all I think it was pretty solid. It'll appeal to casuals and long-time fans. I am OK with this.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:36 pm 


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Gotcha. That was all in a Spoiler tag on page 35 so I've never seen it before.

But happy to take a look.

FinalBaton wrote:
I LOVED how the characters come together. and their relationship with one another. That was so interesting


Interesting like watching paint dry? The relationships are firstly undermined by poor and jarring voice acting of the characters, second by the uninteresting and overextended dialogue. In reality the 'relationships' don't really exist. Trevor meets some people, almost flatly refuses to help, then helps anyway. Trevor meets some people, they try to kill Trevor, he retaliates. Secondary characters are at odds with each other over a very underwhelming and borderline straw-clutching anti Christian theme.

Everyone differs on what they find interesting of course, but what's here is so poorly written and molasses in execution that I can't find it anything except incredibly mundane. Mundane isn't the way I envision a Castlevania animated series to be, yet here it is.

Quote:
I liked the base storyline a ton, with the Christian Church (bishop) being the true culprit for the murder of Drac's wife but of course the Church blames that on a scapegoat: the Speakers. (Trevor outted the Church as fuck in Gista, lol). I think this is a really cool backdrop for the series.


I think it's super dull and shouldn't have any place in a CV anime except as peripheral sub themes. Being the PRIMARY theme is basically Star Wars Prequel failure, because like politics, it has little entertainment value in a product about slaying undead demons.

That said there are parts of all this that work well, and I don't mind the themes being there. I just don't like their prominence dragging everything to a near halt.

Quote:
The initial tension between Trevor and Alucard was cool as fuck because Trevor's familly has been hunting vampires for generations, so of course he doesn't trust a vampire even though he's supposed to be his teammate. That fight was well done btw.


Some of the action bits are nice, if a bit Disneyesque, but I can't feel tension because I can't relate to characters with poor voice acting. Trevor is really quite an awful fit, and his writing is almost as bad as the delivery, which is at odds with the personality of the character. That right there is an enormous problem.

Because of this I find it difficult to have any attachment to the character and those he interacts with, because I don't like him.

Quote:
Second of all, it's your tone that I don't like. Your "you guys are content with shit" tone.
You can have whatever opinion about the show you like, but keep that tone to yourself :wink:


Understood, just bear in mind that's exactly what was said to me by posters here - that they rated the show based on how bad everything is.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:13 pm 


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When I was a kid and they made that really cheesy Mega Man TV show adaptation, I loved it. Obsessively. Was it shit? Oh yes, it was horrible, campy, predictable shit, and was by no means the pinnacle of good writing. It was shit, but it was enjoyable nevertheless because that style of kids show makes no promises about deep plot writing. It's a terrible, campy show with a shallow plot that exists for enjoyment alone.

The problem here is the gritty, serious tone clashes with the really shallow writing. The writers clearly want the viewers to care about what's happening and take the plot seriously, and it's presented as a serious "for adults" work far above the level of a kid's cartoon, but it's impossible to get invested in the story because the writing's rather awful and the characters are unlikeable.

I actually think the voice acting isn't all that bad, but that the material they have to work with is the real issue.

Quote:
In reality the 'relationships' don't really exist. Trevor meets some people, almost flatly refuses to help, then helps anyway.


What Trevor boils down to is being a badly written characterization of the reluctant hero/anti-hero trope.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:27 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
When I was a kid and they made that really cheesy Mega Man TV show adaptation, I loved it. Obsessively. Was it shit? Oh yes, it was horrible, campy, predictable shit, and was by no means the pinnacle of good writing. It was shit, but it was enjoyable nevertheless because that style of kids show makes no promises about deep plot writing. It's a terrible, campy show with a shallow plot that exists for enjoyment alone.

Good excuse to post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5TBeX405bc
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:19 pm 


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Ducktales was pretty well written for what it was. A few of the episodes were kinda ingenious.


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:31 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Ducktales was pretty well written for what it was. A few of the episodes were kinda ingenious.


Brilliantly handled I'd say. And nobody beats a Tokyo Movie Shinsha money shot, not then and certainly not in 2017.
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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:25 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Ducktales was pretty well written for what it was. A few of the episodes were kinda ingenious.


I agree, though the episodes based off of Carl Barks' stories pale in comparison to the originals.


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania Miscellanies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:45 pm 


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I like the earlier Ducktales episodes, but later ones kinda went off the rails. Had to draw the line after this happened. WTF? :(
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