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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:41 am 



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Limbrooke wrote:
Limiting where the user must go and then telling them they must go to a specific area... yeah that's linear game-play at it's finest. It seems then you don't like the cut & dry of complete linearity, so nothing in excess which is fair enough. In the end, MF for me is killed by the fact sequence breaking is almost eliminated and to a normal user I'd say replayability (on non-NTSC-J copies anyway) is non-existant thanks to almost nothing that is guaranteed to change from run to run.


Fusion would be dissapointing if you wanted an exploration-based game (and Super Metroid would be if you just wanted Contra-style action), but I don't understand a blanket condemnation of linearity. Most scrolling shooters are completely linear and nothing changes from run to run. Do they lack replayability?

The Japanese version of Fusion has a hard mode. It can be pretty challenging, especially if you're going for a low time or low collection percentage, essentially playing for score.

I don't like the original Metroid much. I think exploration games have been done well on old hardware, though. Adventure and Sabre Wulf are fun and they're way more primitive.

Metroid II really is a good game. Try it on a GBA or Game Boy Player. They have special pallets built-in for a few first-party Nintendo games. Although the pallet has less variety than the various color hacks, I think it suits the feel of the game better.

This can also be duplicated on an emulator by entering the appropriate color values yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:00 am 


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This thread made me feel like playing some Super Metroid, so I went and one-sitted it. Took me 2hr 37mins with 60% collected, not the best ever but good enough for some Bikini Samus :mrgreen:.

uh yeah, I'm rusty.
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:37 am 


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Mortificator wrote:
Limbrooke wrote:
Limiting where the user must go and then telling them they must go to a specific area... yeah that's linear game-play at it's finest. It seems then you don't like the cut & dry of complete linearity, so nothing in excess which is fair enough. In the end, MF for me is killed by the fact sequence breaking is almost eliminated and to a normal user I'd say replayability (on non-NTSC-J copies anyway) is non-existant thanks to almost nothing that is guaranteed to change from run to run.


Fusion would be dissapointing if you wanted an exploration-based game (and Super Metroid would be if you just wanted Contra-style action), but I don't understand a blanket condemnation of linearity. Most scrolling shooters are completely linear and nothing changes from run to run. Do they lack replayability?


Metroid games are not primarily under the vague scrolling shooter genre. It's a scrolling, platforming, adventure game, with shooting elements. Also comparing Super Metroid to Contra... eh... sure.

Quote:
The Japanese version of Fusion has a hard mode. It can be pretty challenging, especially if you're going for a low time or low collection percentage, essentially playing for score.


Yeah, I already said that in the very post you quoted. Sadly, pardon a gallery which is available in MZM upon link-up, there are few reasons to replay even with hard mode on top of the aforementioned linear bogasity.

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Metroid II really is a good game. Try it on a GBA or Game Boy Player. They have special pallets built-in for a few first-party Nintendo games. Although the pallet has less variety than the various color hacks, I think it suits the feel of the game better.

This can also be duplicated on an emulator by entering the appropriate color values yourself.


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Last edited by Limbrooke on Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:39 am 


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moozooh wrote:
You don't play games with timers and item counters for time and item count challenges because you consider it an artificial way to make the game more fun.

A winner at comprehension is yuo

Obviously the Metroids were doing things for replay value long before many other games did, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy it. Since you posed that as a blanket statement, do you looooove collectathons in the early 3D FPSes (iD software and 3D Realms engine games often did this)? So awesome to run around bashing into walls in hopes of finding something you don't need anymore because you already cleared the level! At a certain point Metroid item collection has that same futility, and in any case it's not something that's entertaining over multiple plays.

Timed runs have been done better elsewhere (Portal would come to mind, and even Contra 4's challenges) simply because of pacing. I like to have a clear target in view when playing something for time, rather than trying to keep my interest in rushing through a whole game (blech).


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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:10 am 



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Ed Oscuro wrote:
Since you posed that as a blanket statement, do you looooove collectathons in the early 3D FPSes (iD software and 3D Realms engine games often did this)?

Well, actually, yes. >_>

I didn't like most of them for other reasons, though.
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:39 am 


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Well, there ya go - difference in taste. Next time I mention Metroid I will keep the high level players in mind, however :D


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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:53 am 


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Darnit, I got sucked into Fusion. One sitted it too in 3:51. Not quite good enough (no revealing clothes.) Anyways, playing Fusion again reminded me what is so great and what's not so great about it:

(SPOILERS AHEAD)
(SPOILERS AHEAD)
(SPOILERS AHEAD)
(SPOILERS AHEAD)
(SPOILERS AHEAD)

Liked:
- The new Ice Missiles!!! They look cool, make cool sound effects and feel very powerful. The ability to charge them added the icing on the cake.

- Very nice environments. They really went the extra mile by adding tons of environmental effects and breaking down the world around you.

- The X. Especially like when they combine and make new enemies.

- SA-X encounters. They are cool and serve to portray them as a menace.

- Feels fresh. I always wanted more of that spaceship level at the beginning of SM and they did a pretty good job here.

- Very memorable moments like rescuing your alien friends and the Metroid lab.


Hated:
- The game holds your hand too tight by setting you on a straight path from a to b to c and so on and the game's enemies barely put up any resistance as you carve through.

- The constant chit-chat from the computer kills the feeling of isolation and mystery, which are fatal flaws in a Metroid game. The computer needed to go away and the story should've been told through journals and Samus' own thoughts.

- Samus' talking 10 minutes from finishing the game wasn't just weird and unnecessary, it also ruined her character. She doesn't need words.

- There's no point to the advanced techniques (wall jumping, super jumping, etc) since the game makes them completely unnecessary and restricts your use of them. Part of the fun of SM is using them to access parts of the game earlier and just plain fooling around.

- Samus' new design. Every time I see it I hate it more. The stat screen is horrendous and it's the cherry on the shit pie.

- Ugly beam designs. My main beef being against the DNA beam.

- Horrible title screen. Blergh, should have stayed in the cutting room.

- No new power ups besides the ice missiles.
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:57 am 



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I like mocking SA-X by opening the elevator door just before the first cutscene. Nothing can be more refreshing in this game than seeing an idiot AI opening an open door with a super missile.
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:54 am 


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After finishing Zero Mission (last boss was a pushover again, the two regular enemies waiting at the end of the escape route were much harder, wtf) I started playing the original Metroid, which got unlocked by beating ZM. Boy, it really is primitive. I do like what it tries to achieve, and it's somewhat fun, but there's a ton of stuff that annoys me to no end:

- Do I really always restart with only 30 HP left? Refilling all my energy by shooting an endless stream of bugs emerging from a tube is really really tedious.
- You must bomb far too precisely to destroy a block. This makes progress a matter of luck, as it's easy to miss the hitbox of a destructable block by a single pixel, and then you think that a wall/floor is not breakable after all.
- No indication of were to go next means a lot of useless wandering around. It's backtracking at its worst.
- Why is the Ice Beam weaker than the long beam? Doesn't make any sense to me. I guess you need the Ice beam for freezing the Metroids in the last bit of the game. So am I really stuck with this shitty shot till the end? Is there no better alternative?
- Slowdown if more than two enemies are on screen.
- Everything looks the same. There's too much repetition in the level design and it's easy to get lost.
- No map.
- Terrible graphics, even for NES.

I do like the music, though.


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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:32 am 


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Great, now go play SM and have your brain cells asplode.
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:17 pm 



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Quote:
- Do I really always restart with only 30 HP left? Refilling all my energy by shooting an endless stream of bugs emerging from a tube is really really tedious.
Yes, and yes it is.

Quote:
- Why is the Ice Beam weaker than the long beam? Doesn't make any sense to me. I guess you need the Ice beam for freezing the Metroids in the last bit of the game. So am I really stuck with this shitty shot till the end? Is there no better alternative?
There's the Wave Beam. There are two Ice Beam powerups, so you can get the Wave Beam and then get an Ice Beam again before going to Tourian.


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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:07 pm 


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One of my favorite features of the NES Metroid is the lack of eight-direction shooting. :(
Of course, just being able to shoot up and down is okay for the time, though.

It's funny, but I own a new copy of the FDS game (with the seal intact).


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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:03 pm 



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Ed Oscuro wrote:
One of my favorite features of the NES Metroid is the lack of eight-direction shooting. :(
Of course, just being able to shoot up and down is okay for the time, though.
You can't shoot down, which is kind of frustrating until you get the bomb, and a bit inconvenient even then.


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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:42 pm 


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Ex-Cyber wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:
One of my favorite features of the NES Metroid is the lack of eight-direction shooting. :(
Of course, just being able to shoot up and down is okay for the time, though.
You can't shoot down, which is kind of frustrating until you get the bomb, and a bit inconvenient even then.

Heh, I knew somebody would end up telling me you couldn't shoot down (I couldn't remember for certain). So...uh yay.


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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:59 pm 


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Herr Schatten wrote:
After finishing Zero Mission (last boss was a pushover again, the two regular enemies waiting at the end of the escape route were much harder, wtf) I started playing the original Metroid, which got unlocked by beating ZM. Boy, it really is primitive.

I do like the music [in Metroid], though.


I agree on both points. The black space pirates at the end of MZM are much harder than Meta-Ridley. I've never faced Meta-Ridley with 100% item collection mind you, wherein his strength and damage dealt goes up quite a bit. The black space pirates are fast and require 3 charge shots each, definitely not as easy, especially considering the damage they do either way.

Metroid's most redeeming point would have to be the music/audio. It's about the only part I don't have issue with.
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:48 pm 


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UnscathedFlyingObject wrote:
Great, now go play SM and have your brain cells asplode.
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:44 am 


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Super Metroid is the obvious masterpiece of the series(kind of like Symphony Of The Night), but I thought Zero Mission was great. Definitely second best. Yeah, it's more linear, and shorter, but it's still a great game.

Fusion was my third favorite. It's pretty linear too, and it's presentation is kinda lacking. Short also. Has good boss fights though.

The first one is just too clunky.
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:56 am 


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Jockel wrote:
UnscathedFlyingObject wrote:
Great, now go play SM and have your brain cells asplode.


I would say M2. Even on a GBA with some color I was always lost. I think one intersection behaves differently depending on how you maneuver through it.


has any one played any of the original metroid hacks?:
http://www.zophar.net/hacks/nes/metroid-12.html


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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:14 am 


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While I'm not the biggest Metroid fan, I'm still incredibly blown away at how Nintendo has no idea what the appeal of this franchise is, or at least, was.

The theme was great, it was like you were in an Alien film. The haunting music, monstrous alien monsters... any bit of realism and gravity has been thrown out the window to uh, what end? Magic cartoon characters? To appeal to... the nonexistent 5 year olds who want to play a 40 hour long dungeon crawl in space?

They can make Donkey Kong Country games for people who like Donkey Kong Country, they can make Fire Emblem games for people who like Fire Emblem, what's so damn complicated about making a Metroid game designed to appeal to people who like Metroid?

This mystery completely baffles me. Is it some kind of giant Japan <-> USA culture gap? Did they not watch Alien over there? Was there an Alien movie where some of the Xenos are big purple play-dough blobs, who join the space marines to blow away the Bad Xenos with mystical alien karate? Did I miss that one?


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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:17 am 


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Other M aside, they haven't really steered the franchise wrong so much as left it untouched for an characteristically long time.

Much like F-Zero, though not quite as bad.
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 4:57 pm 


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The first one is my favorite. There was nothing like it.

If Metroid comes back, I want my freedom back--just like the new Zelda.
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:27 pm 


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Still can't get the full enjoyment playing SM, or maybe I'm doing something wrong...?
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:30 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
The first one is my favorite. There was nothing like it.

If Metroid comes back, I want my freedom back--just like the new Zelda.


Two words:

Hollow Knight.


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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:04 pm 



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copy-paster wrote:
Still can't get the full enjoyment playing SM, or maybe I'm doing something wrong...?


1. Learn the mockball.
2. Learn the shinespark.
3. Experiment.
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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 4:23 am 


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just got done replaying through Super Metroid

What an amazing experience. This is close to being a perfect game for me.
The atmosphere is just insane. The sense of isolation, the eerie music, getting trapped in parts of a level(being unable to go back for a while) and therefore being cut-off from your ship and forced to go forward in unknown territory - who knows what's hiding there?

The weapon switching is fun, the control is great... not many flaws with this one
And of course there's a shit ton of stuff to find. I'm kinda OCD so there are many walls against which I bombed my way up. lol


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 Post subject: Re: the Metroid series (late to the party)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:41 am 


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I gave Rogue Dawn a try a couple months back. It's pretty nice overall.

The art is excellent, it has some nice little surprises that are fun, the music is bad to mediocre, and.... the level design makes you feel like a rat in a maze even more so than the official games do. Which I feel is a negative. At the very least it doesn't have those endless blue and gold access shafts like the original game does, which automatically makes it 300% better.

One cool thing about it, is how there's things like open ground when transitioning to another level segment. It's much better at creating the illusion of being on another planet than how the original game does things. Those blue hamster doors used at _every_ single transition point were really lame, when you pay attention and think about it. It matters way more than it has any right to; I didn't think there could be anything interesting made in this old engine, but this one difference alone proves me wrong.

Better than the original game, which is more than anyone could ask from a rom hack, no?

Squire Grooktook wrote:
Other M aside, they haven't really steered the franchise wrong so much as left it untouched for an characteristically long time.


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It's gone in a disastrous Nickelodeon/Bionicle kind of direction when it comes to theming. The base wants it to be more Alien, the guys in control of it seem to want it to be more magic children's cartoon. Which makes no sense, what kind of five year old wants to play a 25 hour long roguelike?


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