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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 4:46 pm 


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I saw the new trailer yesterday, if anything it reminded me how important the original film was. Thus far, with all the nods to the past and such - gigantic atari logos, etc. - I hope it will not be another one of these "make it look 80s enough to drag the suckers in" kind of deals. We shall have to see.

I have not read any of the BR books that were based on the film - are they worth reading anyone know? I have read many PKD books though including 'Do Androids..'. I would have preferred it if they had have used models in addition to CGI but I would say that :)

I cannot allow myself to be optimistic but the director did Sicario which was not bad so I shall give him a chance before I see it :)
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:28 pm 


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MintyTheCat wrote:
I would have preferred it if they had have used models in addition to CGI but I would say that :)


http://io9.gizmodo.com/director-says-cg ... 1792253940

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I cannot allow myself to be optimistic but the director did Sicario which was not bad so I shall give him a chance before I see it :)


Might as well watch Arrival, too.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:37 am 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:
I would have preferred it if they had have used models in addition to CGI but I would say that :)


http://io9.gizmodo.com/director-says-cg ... 1792253940

Quote:
I cannot allow myself to be optimistic but the director did Sicario which was not bad so I shall give him a chance before I see it :)


Might as well watch Arrival, too.

That is good to read - I like little models :)

I have not seen Arrival; my uncle was telling me to see it too along with you so I will add it to the 'watch list' - thanks, GP :)
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:35 am 


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Zen wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:
Arrival was great


Geddoudahere! Arrival was a stinker :)
Maybe skykid was referring to The Arrival (1996) - David Twohy? Which is an hilariously bad film.


Not Charlie Sheen The Arrival, which I mini reviewed here not long back, that's a pile of goat shit.

Why did you think Arrival by Denis Villeneuve was a stinker tho? Do tell (but no spoilage please)
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:18 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
Zen wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:
Arrival was great


Geddoudahere! Arrival was a stinker :)
Maybe skykid was referring to The Arrival (1996) - David Twohy? Which is an hilariously bad film.


Not Charlie Sheen The Arrival, which I mini reviewed here not long back, that's a pile of goat shit.

Why did you think Arrival by Denis Villeneuve was a stinker tho? Do tell (but no spoilage please)

imdb has this one line synopsis:
"When twelve mysterious spacecraft appear around the world, linguistics professor Louise Banks is tasked with interpreting the language of the apparent alien visitors.", so you pretty much know the whole thing going in.
Its how the good prof does this, that got me shaking my fist at the screen. My cranky review is here; http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32519&p=1238368&hilit=arrival#p1238368 but the whole thing is in a spoiler tag. There are other issues also but I do not want to risk spoiling anything.
Oh, and our heroine is Amy Adams. Just thought I'd mention as I remember reading that you found her annoying. And Bryce Dallas Howard . . . .

Please pardon me if this is too forward my man but that's kind of indicative of an "anti-type" :wink: If sister in type to these two, Jessica Chastain also offends, it's third strike, 25 to life, throw away the key certain.


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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:04 pm 


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I'm not a huge fan of Amy Adams... I'm not a hater either though. I guess I don't see where all the hate is coming from. Is she well known enough to be hated?

Quote:
"When twelve mysterious spacecraft appear around the world, linguistics professor Louise Banks is tasked with interpreting the language of the apparent alien visitors.", so you pretty much know the whole thing going in.


Yes, and in the trailer. The film revolves around language... totally... which is what sets it apart, and it's adhering to that is what makes it a good film and not just another alien film. Superb audio mixing gives it a full point on a scale of 10 for me as well. Maybe it'll speak a bit more to Skykid being surrounded by Mandarin every day, but he's already done himself a disservice unless his at home setup can compare to a theater's sound system.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:58 pm 


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My sound setup is pretty decent, but not amazing I suppose. While I have complete respect for movie audio to the point where I'll kick up a fuss if a movie theatre isn't properly maintained, I'm not sure I consider it an aspect that will singlehandedly raise the level of filmmaking. In-fact, I'm pretty sure that's not possible. Incredible audio won't fix a bad flick.

With that in mind I'm sure I'll take Arrival for whatever it is, regardless of the sound setup. Amy Adams is pretty bleh, neither good nor bad, but the subject sounds interesting. Definitely got my curiousity.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:15 pm 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Yes, and in the trailer. The film revolves around language... totally... which is what sets it apart, and it's adhering to that is what makes it a good film and not just another alien film.

My quoting the imdb synopsis was simply to advise that there is not much danger to spoiling, with regards general discussion of this film. It was not meant in any way to be taken as a criticism of the theme of the film, which is obviously language/communication and a human attempt at the seemingly impossible puzzle of how to connect with an alien form of same.
In fact, my review plainly states that I was hyped to fuck at the idea. How is professor Louise Banks going to make true "contact" with such a magnificently alien life-form? The film blatantly sets you up. What you get is jaw-droppingly retarded
Fuck me! I really want to argue my point here but I going to spoil the film if I do :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:30 pm 


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Gotcha... well, maybe Skykid will get off us twat and watch it this weekend. :D
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:02 pm 


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i really like this director alot..his best movie is Incendies 2010..what a movie
Prisoners
Enemy

really cant wait for Blade Runner 2049


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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:09 am 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of Amy Adams... I'm not a hater either though. I guess I don't see where all the hate is coming from. Is she well known enough to be hated?

Quote:
"When twelve mysterious spacecraft appear around the world, linguistics professor Louise Banks is tasked with interpreting the language of the apparent alien visitors.", so you pretty much know the whole thing going in.


Yes, and in the trailer. The film revolves around language... totally... which is what sets it apart, and it's adhering to that is what makes it a good film and not just another alien film. Superb audio mixing gives it a full point on a scale of 10 for me as well. Maybe it'll speak a bit more to Skykid being surrounded by Mandarin every day, but he's already done himself a disservice unless his at home setup can compare to a theater's sound system.

I thought it was not bad. The visual language was interesting. Lighting and look was well done. The aspects of time got me thinking.
Very different to the films of the director I had seen before though.
Once again though, seeing the US not as the aggressor - in this case against outer space aliens - but pretty much every one else - that gets tiring.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:08 pm 


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Well it's a couple of months wait till the release date, so I hope we don't get to see any more trailers.
Not going to bother with The Last Jedi until dvd release.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:37 pm 



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Mills wrote:
Well it's a couple of months wait till the release date, so I hope we don't get to see any more trailers.
Not going to bother with The Last Jedi until dvd release.


It's a given that Disney/Lucasfilm will release the Star Wars: The Last Jedi flick on DVD/BR in April of 2018. It's a given that SW:TFA & SW:RO were released on DVD/Blu-Ray formats in April 2016 and April 2017 respectively (for the North American marketbase) following their proper North American theatrical screen release (back in December of 2015 and December 2016 respectively).

I still haven't heard if a fully-restored version "frame-by-frame" of the original theatrical versions of the SW trilogy is being released on Blu-Ray or even on 4K UHD format for that matter (none of the SW movies have ever been released on 4K UHD format to date). Disney/Lucasfilm has the $$$$, time, technical expertise and manpower to pull it off without a hitch. The original 35mm print reels of all three original SW trilogy film are kept in a sealed and temperature controlled vault for posterity and safekeeping -- that is a given in this day of age.

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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:11 pm 



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Man, I'm really hoping this movie will be just as good as the original. I loved the original so much.


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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:59 pm 


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I feel like there must be something wrong with me. I watched the original again over the weekend and it just felt boring.

It's a beautiful film and I respect the hell out of it for its influence on everything cyberpunk, but the story just loses me for some reason.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:00 pm 


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cj iwakura wrote:
I feel like there must be something wrong with me. I watched the original again over the weekend and it just felt boring.

It's a beautiful film and I respect the hell out of it for its influence on everything cyberpunk, but the story just loses me for some reason.


It's an old school film noir detective story. If you're expecting anything more you're approaching it wrong.

I suggest the Workprint over all other versions - it's certainly better paced - but either way it's a wonderful movie through and through.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:08 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
cj iwakura wrote:
I feel like there must be something wrong with me. I watched the original again over the weekend and it just felt boring.

It's a beautiful film and I respect the hell out of it for its influence on everything cyberpunk, but the story just loses me for some reason.


It's an old school film noir detective story. If you're expecting anything more you're approaching it wrong.

I suggest the Workprint over all other versions - it's certainly better paced - but either way it's a wonderful movie through and through.


I like noir detective stories though, I don't get why BR loses me.

I've never seen the Workprint, only the final cut. I'll check that out.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:29 pm 


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The latest trailer makes it look like any other movie. I stopped watching as it reveals too much about the (generic looking) plot.

cj iwakura wrote:
I feel like there must be something wrong with me. I watched the original again over the weekend and it just felt boring.

It's a beautiful film and I respect the hell out of it for its influence on everything cyberpunk, but the story just loses me for some reason.


I kind of agree. It's brilliant in so many ways - no film has come close to it since - but something about it leaves me cold. It's austere and not too much happens but that gives the film space and time to soak it all in. I don't think Harrison Ford is well cast. Deckard isn't particularly proactive and even though he does "do things" the film still seems to happen around him. The supporting cast are all brilliant though, especially Rutger Hauer.

... and I can see why they added narration. Everyone hates on the original theatrical version but it's the version I grew up with so I like it - though I have to admit it gets a bit pants by the end.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:51 pm 


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The best stuff gets old too, more importantly it seems many of those once almost universally praised works fit perfectly in the particular era they were created, but seem off/bland after some decades.
The real sad thing is that we're trying to revive and reboot everything, massively so, and as expected it only very rarely works out fine.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:34 am 


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Xyga wrote:
The best stuff gets old too, more importantly it seems many of those once almost universally praised works fit perfectly in the particular era they were created, but seem off/bland after some decades.


I wouldn't say that, Le Samourai feels timeless, and the story is great. I think BR just fails to have a compelling story to back up the visuals, while some classics are the full package.

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The real sad thing is that we're trying to revive and reboot everything, massively so, and as expected it only very rarely works out fine.


On that we agree. I just hope they leave Gremlins alone.



Though I have to say, the new trailer for BR2 is GREAT.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:56 am 


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Xyga wrote:
The best stuff gets old too, more importantly it seems many of those once almost universally praised works fit perfectly in the particular era they were created, but seem off/bland after some decades.


I disagree, the best stuff never gets old. There are some things that don't stand the test of time and do lose their luster, but Blade Runner isn't one of them. On the contrary, some film gets better with age, and I'd definitely put BR Workprint in there (got so much better with age, in-fact, that Scott forgot about the eminence of his original cut completely and proffered the lesser Final Cut instead).

I've revisited a lot of movies over the last few years and while some haven't held up, others have simply gotten even more impressive. Robocop's wonderful satirical humour and ultraviolent blend springs to mind, it's aged like fine wine.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:12 am 


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Sometimes its nice when a film is like a portrait of another time. If well done, thats a plus, not a minus.
Taxi Driver and Blade Runner are good examples of that. Its like classic literature, it can never get too old.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:09 am 


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Skykid wrote:
Xyga wrote:
The best stuff gets old too, more importantly it seems many of those once almost universally praised works fit perfectly in the particular era they were created, but seem off/bland after some decades.


I disagree, the best stuff never gets old. There are some things that don't stand the test of time and do lose their luster, but Blade Runner isn't one of them. On the contrary, some film gets better with age, and I'd definitely put BR Workprint in there (got so much better with age, in-fact, that Scott forgot about the eminence of his original cut completely and proffered the lesser Final Cut instead).

I've revisited a lot of movies over the last few years and while some haven't held up, others have simply gotten even more impressive. Robocop's wonderful satirical humour and ultraviolent blend springs to mind, it's aged like fine wine.

I really don't see things this way for a lot of productions. It's the same with many other things like games and music, you need to have lived the years they came out and experienced why those works were made that way and what they meant at that moment. Those who discover stuff decades later no matter the dedication can never completely reproduce and 'live' the real shit, this is why I believe what can really be called 'timeless' is something that doesn't have any too significant flavours of a specific era of our then-reality in it, being timeless isn't necessarily an enviable thing as I see it.
Since we're mentioning the 80's well from everything I remember and I've also re-watched several times again and again up to today, what I mean is that most of it is too far away already, there's no way the stuff from then can work and feel like it did anymore, it's memories for us, and because of the gap; practically nothing to younger generations.
BR and Robocop are almost quintessential examples of movies that worked perfectly when they came out, to the point they're prime examples if not genre textbook definitions, radiating tons of things of their time in so many aspects they're inseparable from it. Whether it's the treatment of the sci-fi themes, the visions of the techno-dystopian future, the characters, scenario, the music, atmospheres, fucktons of things brewed and brought to light because they were either new or spoke to people in their reality of the time.
In fact, there's a timed cultural experience that's required to fully appreciate the things that make/made X or Y past work, and without going as far as saying it's ephemeral the clock certainly ticks and the many constituent influences fade away, for some things more than others of course, but my point was the stronger the stuff is tied to its era, the more likely and obviously it will lose its real character over time for future audiences. This is why revivals/reboots of things that fit perfectly in their time, icons of their time, almost never work today.
I think there's a lot of mistaking love/respect and nostalgia for a kind of perpetual excellence, this is kind of what we do with games going through cycles of bitterness about what school/gameplay/type of games are worth more than the rest and what was dope 10y ago has now lost respect and we go back two or three decades and more to the rawer/older stuff, in an unhealthy manner like angry old farts arguing over what thing of the past is better (the 'is' is the anomaly).
The best movies, games, music, books, whatever, will alway be remembered for having deserved their laurels, but forever granting the same level of paired praise and relevance? Hum...timelessnes is a status hard to acquire and also a label potentially damaging culturally speaking to the generations that come after.
I mean this 21st century so far is all about going in circles in bitterness, I can't help but see letting the past go as a significant part of what we really need, history is only meant to serve as reference - past reference - for helping us think in the present and move on to really new stuff.
(also I can't help but think it's because whe haven't killed the old gods that we see the somewhat new and more original stuff sprout and grow where we wouldn't have expected it before. an example you cite yourself: tv now producing better stuff than hollywood)

Huh /rant :p
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:55 am 


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@Xyga: It's pretty far-fetched to assume there's a single privileged reading of something based on living in a particular place in a particular time. Every audience negotiation will be different according to their needs and experiences regardless of whether they "'live' it" (?) Or view it in a different time period. Something like Blade Runner required an 80's audience to either decode, overlook or ignore references to 40's Film Noir (a movement they doubtless would have had little 'first hand') experience of with transnational references to contemporary issues like Japan as an economic powerhouse, themes of sentience and identity, consumerism, commodity fetishism and so on. These aspects 'speak' to people just as much now as ever, and in as many different ways, because watching a film isn't just a process of a director pouring something in to an audience's brain.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:22 am 


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MX7 wrote:
@Xyga: It's pretty far-fetched to assume there's a single privileged reading of something based on living in a particular place in a particular time.

I don't intend to be that radical, note that I'm saying its constituent influences fade way with time, an that's it's not a general fixed rule either, not everything loses its vibe or not in the same fashion/the same pace.

MX7 wrote:
Something like Blade Runner required an 80's audience to either decode, overlook or ignore references to 40's Film Noir (a movement they doubtless would have had little 'first hand') experience of with transnational references to contemporary issues like Japan as an economic powerhouse, themes of sentience and identity, consumerism, commodity fetishism and so on. These aspects 'speak' to people just as much now as ever, and in as many different ways, because watching a film isn't just a process of a director pouring something in to an audience's brain.

There's a distinction I think is important to make, related to what I've just mentioned; not everything is affected by time the same way.
Noir is a literary and cinematic genre, although nowhere near as popular today it's not something that will disappear maybe ever. The various takes and evolutions on sci-fi though have been through more sub-cycles and sub-genres over time, that's another layer, and the then-cultural and artistic influences constitute more sublayers, constituents.
My point again is that over time not everything survives to be experienced 'live' like then, exactly the same, that's impossible no matter how hard we try to accurately emulate everything, to me the very late audiences will miss some more or less important portions of what it was then, you'd need a time machine the re-live the shock that was Akira or playing SSFII for the first time in the arcades and so on.

There's no claim of 'privilege', I'll never pretend I can fully grasp what was living the things before my own time, I can enjoy the records and the preserved stuff and get tons of greatness and knowledge from it, but at varying degrees of importance, never completely the same.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:11 pm 



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Although I don't want to judge a film just from its trailer, this is certainly a case where I may do so. From what I've seen, this sequel has absolutely none of the mise-en-scène present in the first film. Every place is supposed to be big, empty and minimalist. I mean, remember what a mess LA was in 2019? And everything is either orange or teal, while the original film had an excessive use of a rather dark but wide color palette (Final Cut is the exception though) that gave a completely different look to the future. As a big, big fan of the original film I actually doubt I'll even give this a watch.

I do believe though, based on the trailer...
Spoiler: show
That the orange scenes with Ford takes place on a abandoned Off-world colony. That kind of represents more of what I was looking for but since the original film only took place in L.A. which looks nothing like this film I believe I will miss the old mise-en-scène.


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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:43 am 


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Xyga wrote:
Skykid wrote:
Xyga wrote:
The best stuff gets old too, more importantly it seems many of those once almost universally praised works fit perfectly in the particular era they were created, but seem off/bland after some decades.


I disagree, the best stuff never gets old. There are some things that don't stand the test of time and do lose their luster, but Blade Runner isn't one of them. On the contrary, some film gets better with age, and I'd definitely put BR Workprint in there (got so much better with age, in-fact, that Scott forgot about the eminence of his original cut completely and proffered the lesser Final Cut instead).

I've revisited a lot of movies over the last few years and while some haven't held up, others have simply gotten even more impressive. Robocop's wonderful satirical humour and ultraviolent blend springs to mind, it's aged like fine wine.

I really don't see things this way for a lot of productions. It's the same with many other things like games and music, you need to have lived the years they came out and experienced why those works were made that way and what they meant at that moment. Those who discover stuff decades later no matter the dedication can never completely reproduce and 'live' the real shit, this is why I believe what can really be called 'timeless' is something that doesn't have any too significant flavours of a specific era of our then-reality in it, being timeless isn't necessarily an enviable thing as I see it.
Since we're mentioning the 80's well from everything I remember and I've also re-watched several times again and again up to today, what I mean is that most of it is too far away already, there's no way the stuff from then can work and feel like it did anymore, it's memories for us, and because of the gap; practically nothing to younger generations.
BR and Robocop are almost quintessential examples of movies that worked perfectly when they came out, to the point they're prime examples if not genre textbook definitions, radiating tons of things of their time in so many aspects they're inseparable from it. Whether it's the treatment of the sci-fi themes, the visions of the techno-dystopian future, the characters, scenario, the music, atmospheres, fucktons of things brewed and brought to light because they were either new or spoke to people in their reality of the time.
In fact, there's a timed cultural experience that's required to fully appreciate the things that make/made X or Y past work, and without going as far as saying it's ephemeral the clock certainly ticks and the many constituent influences fade away, for some things more than others of course, but my point was the stronger the stuff is tied to its era, the more likely and obviously it will lose its real character over time for future audiences. This is why revivals/reboots of things that fit perfectly in their time, icons of their time, almost never work today.
I think there's a lot of mistaking love/respect and nostalgia for a kind of perpetual excellence, this is kind of what we do with games going through cycles of bitterness about what school/gameplay/type of games are worth more than the rest and what was dope 10y ago has now lost respect and we go back two or three decades and more to the rawer/older stuff, in an unhealthy manner like angry old farts arguing over what thing of the past is better (the 'is' is the anomaly).
The best movies, games, music, books, whatever, will alway be remembered for having deserved their laurels, but forever granting the same level of paired praise and relevance? Hum...timelessnes is a status hard to acquire and also a label potentially damaging culturally speaking to the generations that come after.
I mean this 21st century so far is all about going in circles in bitterness, I can't help but see letting the past go as a significant part of what we really need, history is only meant to serve as reference - past reference - for helping us think in the present and move on to really new stuff.
(also I can't help but think it's because whe haven't killed the old gods that we see the somewhat new and more original stuff sprout and grow where we wouldn't have expected it before. an example you cite yourself: tv now producing better stuff than hollywood)

Huh /rant :p


You're looking at the art far too superficially. When I say aged like a fine wine, I mean the brilliance of the composition: the era is inconsequential.

Performances, directorial stamps and control of visuals, camera, and a beautifully written script are elements I consider ageless because they are. These aspects don't get old in the same way good stage performance has been entertaining for thousands of years.

Citizen Kane may be an old black & white movie, but look at the wonderful creativity of its framing and camerawork and it suddenly becomes as new as anything can be.

If we are being more superficial and simply looking at thematic properties, some movies, like Robocop with its hard satire, are actually more relevant today. Trump in the White House, propaganda in the news and 100% pure undiluted dogshit being pumped into people's brains by mass media. We're right there.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:19 am 


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Skykid wrote:
You're looking at the art far too superficially. When I say aged like a fine wine, I mean the brilliance of the composition: the era is inconsequential.

Performances, directorial stamps and control of visuals, camera, and a beautifully written script are elements I consider ageless because they are. These aspects don't get old in the same way good stage performance has been entertaining for thousands of years.

Citizen Kane may be an old black & white movie, but look at the wonderful creativity of its framing and camerawork and it suddenly becomes as new as anything can be.

I agree at my level but this isn't what I'm talking about. And you know like most people you talk with here I'm a film science peasant so yeah go on an keep calling people's appreciation superficial, this isn't a film school community so I don't mind (personally at least). But I can tell a film isn't exclusively about filmaking, it's not a machine or a fixed formula.

Quote:
If we are being more superficial and simply looking at thematic properties, some movies, like Robocop with its hard satire, are actually more relevant today. Trump in the White House, propaganda in the news and 100% pure undiluted dogshit being pumped into people's brains by mass media. We're right there.

Yes that's right several aspects of the dystopian predictions somewhat came true, very true sadly even, so yes films such as Robocop are totally relevant to reality now. But his isn't the goal of sci-fi.
My point is what were the things that gave people dreams and nightmares about the future in the 80's, what was trendy in that area? Sci-fi is mostly fictional anticipation, whether what it depicts and tells actually comes to reality in the real world many years later isn't what matters the most (even if a dose of plausible is also important) rather it has to either grab and use things of the real world and use the hopes and fears building a sci-fi story, or just follow the trend of the time if the tone has already been given and used by a number of prescriptors/pioneering authors and such.
What made the 50's visions of the future what they were was relevant to the 50's in the news and culture, and what made the 80's visions of the future was also relevant to the 80's etc.
Flying cars and robots a la T800 aren't that fashionable anymore, or they look different and now often given more ambiguous roles. Streets actually taken over by literal punks and perm-shoulderpads dancing to ridiculous pop in cheesy clubs, pewing synth effects when a door opens and neon signs will sound goofy where they were awesome and awe-inspiring at the time. Chimneys spitting fire in the middle of a city, voice-operated polaroid analyzer, computers that seem OS and software-less doing the one thing the character needs immediately after pressing a key, or firing the entire world's nukes because it freaked out, stop motion mic-chick-robots, a futuristic city project that looks no more impressive than a district of a Chinese city today, baddies henchmen looking bad because they laugh and wear a leather jacket, a Matrix with dreadlocked hackers watching a flow of nonsense green characters, a submerged suit that allows a human to survive deep-abyss pressure and meet glass-looking alien angels with cheesy morals, and what the fuck of a million details that were a thing-of-good/bad-anticipation the moment they were put on film, but at various levels and speed becoming less relatable over time to an inevitably growing non-prime audience.
When you were there at the time it's easier to get all that stuff and why it had an effect and a sense, the mood, how it spoke to the people of then, but for a fisrt-timer audience 20 or 30 years later? I'm sorry but no. There's way too much stuff that'll look and sound odd and even clumsy, laughable, ridiculous, unrelatable.

Many things are indeed there forever, whether we're talking about textbook genres filmmaking and acting, everything we can all relate to when it comes to just being humans and live in this world. And there are all the things that come and go and that we can't just completely put on paper or film then keep and copy them the same like it's just raw material or data to preserve.
Yeah that's empirical and in many ways ephemeral, but undeniable.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:59 am 


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You know use of the word superficial isn't a slur? I used it contextually to describe the way you're relating to aspects of film that date based on changes of attitudes over time.

The superficiality is that Back To the Future II's future, as it were, has now been outdated by actual technology (to a degree) and therefore is less impressive to children and adults.

My point was that I don't consider the visual design of a movie to be its most salient quality or that which stands the test of time.

Apocalypse Now is a great example of a period film that barely dates at all, while the 80sness of Back to The Future is kept alive by brilliant writing, casting, and a high bar for entertainment production by its team.

Yes I can agree that visions of the future or fashions or even cultural and topical aspects of films can date, because thematically it's rare to keep something relevant forever. But take a movie as a bubble and look for the qualities in its artistic achievements rather than its thematic stylings, and the Strangeloves and Blade Runners are just as impressive as ever - and in many cases more so, thanks to the climate of film today; one that has fallen so low in terms of anything EXCEPT thematics that they're basically colorful shit smeared on recycled toilet paper.
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 Post subject: Re: Blade Runner 2049
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:35 am 


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Skykid wrote:
You know use of the word superficial isn't a slur? I used it contextually to describe the way you're relating to aspects of film that date based on changes of attitudes over time.

Yeah that was rather aggressive sorry, but because you know, it was obvious I'm not really talking about the same stuff you do (I couldn't efficiently anyway) yet you're here again for the hundreth time with the film science like it's the only thing there is to talk about, so I was like 'gah not again'. hope you get where that came from.
I sure do appreciate all the judgement and input you bring but for the layman it's a bit tiring to be relentlessly reminded of it like it's God's law.

Skykid wrote:
The superficiality is that Back To the Future II's future, as it were, has now been outdated by actual technology (to a degree) and therefore is less impressive to children and adults.

My point was that I don't consider the visual design of a movie to be its most salient quality or that which stands the test of time.

Apocalypse Now is a great example of a period film that barely dates at all, while the 80sness of Back to The Future is kept alive by brilliant writing, casting, and a high bar for entertainment production by its team.

Yes I can agree that visions of the future or fashions or even cultural and topical aspects of films can date, because thematically it's rare to keep something relevant forever. But take a movie as a bubble and look for the qualities in its artistic achievements rather than its thematic stylings, and the Strangeloves and Blade Runners are just as impressive as ever - and in many cases more so, thanks to the climate of film today; one that has fallen so low in terms of anything EXCEPT thematics that they're basically colorful shit smeared on recycled toilet paper.

You've noted I definitely don't limit my description of what will 'go missing' to visual or sound design but indeed to a whole lot of things. I'm sorry but precisely because I look at a movie like a bubble I can't ignore/exclude all that's not purely about artistic achievements, and I can't dissociate them from the texbook structure either, everything that's in the bubble comes from the outside anyway.
edit: and however you look at it no matter how well written the plot and the execution are the audience must be able to relate to the plot's material, otherwise it might not work. in the case of sci-fi, when too many elements of the anticipation, expected or not, don't hit the required strings anymore what the maker intended to pass will have less impact if not at all in the worst cases. as time passes and these elements fade away, the overall quality of the piece does too. it's different for every film of course, but I'm suprised this isn't a more obviouly apparent 'condition' of artistic productions for a lot of people, or everyone knows but it's not worded as such because it's annoying/frustrating.
You know you really sound like a teacher sometimes, don't take that as a negative criticism because it's by learning that one earns access to higher levels of sensitivity and understanding, but in my opinion that's also how one loses, say, a kind of more romanticist type of sensitivity. I just hate it when people make everything sound like science, especially when it comes to art.
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