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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:01 am 


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And the reason the MD managed to stay afloat is because of peaks of quality in its library, not consistence.

Simple example: the SNES's beat'em up library crushes that of the MD... but it doesn't have Streets of Rage 2. 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:25 am 



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What amazes me is that there is so many examples where the MD port has better music than the arcade: Snow Bros, Slap Fight, Zero Wing, Midnight Resistance, Gauntlet, Strider, Double Dragon 2, Vapor Trail etc.

The machine has a rockin' sound setup, and unless something like the GEMS or Sound Images drivers were used it's usually safe to crank it up. That FM bass is so pure and Godlike, even the next gen 32-bit stuff seems canned in comparison!
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:11 am 


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The FM is godlike. And not enough mentions of Granada here either.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:27 am 


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Any Wolf Team/Sakuraba, really. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzHOxyDw2Wg


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:32 am 


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Skykid wrote:
Sorry, I remembered a guy talking about being in love with a Japanese Idol (or similar - could be an AV star) and having completely impossible fantasies of meeting that (honestly non-existent) girl. I thought that was you, but if I've gotten you mixed up with someone else I apologise, my bad.


No problem. Yeah, that was definitely not me

Skykid wrote:
On topic I genuinely believe you're not seeing clearly when it comes to graphical prowess between the two consoles. The SFC is obviously superior in terms of detail, of course helped by the must more accomplished colour palette. The MD had its moments (Gunstar or Panorama Cotton for example) where it impressively defied the odds. But not on any grand scale. I love the MD's gritty look anyway. Games like ESWAT, off the top of my head, are better for the Detroit Grey colour styling and wouldn't look as good in candy vision. But when the SFC put that clarity to use - which was often - it marked some of the 16-bit's highest points aesthetically. Legend of the Mystical Ninja still looks good enough to take a bit out of the TV screen.


I agree that the SNES 's colour palette is a definite advantage. However, you can't talk about "detail" and not mention resolution. Resolution IS pure detail. The MD games have 320 pixels on the horizontal axis, whereas the SNES games have 256. That means that on the same 4:3 screen, you have more information. More detail.

The increased colour palette of the SNES helps make up for that though. Lots of eye candy there for sure. Yet MD still has some colorful, cheerful games. Just look at the Shinning Force games. Very vibrant color work. Just, not a ton of gradient available...


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:11 pm 


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It depends on how you perceive "detail" really. Resolution is one thing, artistry is another.

I don't think Mario World 2 or Hamelin no Violin Hiki have any less detail for the resolution.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:40 pm 


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^yep

More resolution real estate isn't an advantage if you don't have enough shades to fill it and actually draw details.
The SNES has 64 times more colors and can display 4 times more at once: it's not 'making up for', rather because of that fact it's exceeding the MD's graphics ability, even over a smaller resolution.
It's not a matter of showing vibrant colors, practically any console can do that, it's showing a greater amplitude from the darkest to purest shades that matters.
I really think you're either not honest or don't know the SNES enough because it's been obvious for decades to the entire world who knows even just a little about video games that the SNES has the edge in graphics, unquestionably.

You should really give up on trying to place the two consoles on the same level when it comes to tech and figures, just face reality: the SNES beat the MD in just about everything.
Except...what I've been saying for several posts (and not just me!) when it comes to purely the games themselves; when we look at the design, gameplay, art etc we know the MD had a more restraint number or great games, though many of which could exceed in quality an entire class, more numerous and technically advanced, on the SNES side. This is how the MD survived against the competition of the SNES, much more so than with its actual performance.

The SNES is a vast library of general 16bit goodness and greatness to explore, it's the iconic console of the first half of the 90's and even more.
The MD is more targeted, specialized at things we couldn't find elsewhere and wouldn't even fit on the SNES, the indeed more 'arcadey' machine for all of us who couldn't buy a Neo Geo, but also a one that somewhat inherited a bit from the Japanese and european home PC cultures.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:53 pm 


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snes has final fantasy
you can't beat that


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:10 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
^yep

More resolution real estate isn't an advantage if you don't have enough shades to fill it and actually draw details.
The SNES has 64 times more colors and can display 4 times more at once: it's not 'making up for', rather because of that fact it's exceeding the MD's graphics ability, even over a smaller resolution.
It's not a matter of showing vibrant colors, practically any console can do that, it's showing a greater amplitude from the darkest to purest shades that matters.
I really think you're either not honest or don't know the SNES enough because it's been obvious for decades to the entire world who knows even just a little about video games that the SNES has the edge in graphics, unquestionably.

You should really give up on trying to place the two consoles on the same level when it comes to tech and figures, just face reality: the SNES beat the MD in just about everything.
Except...what I've been saying for several posts (and not just me!) when it comes to purely the games themselves; when we look at the design, gameplay, art etc we know the MD had a more restraint number or great games, though many of which could exceed in quality an entire class, more numerous and technically advanced, on the SNES side. This is how the MD survived against the competition of the SNES, much more so than with its actual performance.

The SNES is a vast library of general 16bit goodness and greatness to explore, it's the iconic console of the first half of the 90's and even more.
The MD is more targeted, specialized at things we couldn't find elsewhere and wouldn't even fit on the SNES, the indeed more 'arcadey' machine for all of us who couldn't buy a Neo Geo, but also a one that somewhat inherited a bit from the Japanese and european home PC cultures.

do you not understand how resolution work? colour non-withstanding, you have more pixels at your disposal. just imagine two blank rasters(grids) for a moment, one for each console. if one has a considerable amount more pixels in one axis, then that means you have more detail. The pixels on your 3:4 screen will not only appear narrower for the MD (aka non-fat, unlike the SNES), but you'll have more of them. So if say you draw a sprite that takes up the same crt screen real estate on both hardware, then the character on MD will have more pixels in it. Thus more definition.
Of course as I've said, having more colour is better. But it doesn't change the fact that the snes has less resolution detail. The resolution is definitely a non-negligeible aspect and if you can't see that then I don't know what else to tell you to illustrate that. A matrix with more dots = more detail. You don't need a million shades of colours to take advantage of an increase in resolution, wtf is this :lol:

And yes my main argument is that the game library of the MD is just as good. The hardware? SNES is a little bit better (I even said so in my last post on page 267["the SNES has a bit more juice"]). but it better fucking be, it came out a 2 full years after :lol: It'd be a total joke if it didn't! besides, the MD is plenty powerful for the task at hand, it's an amazing machine. I personally prefer the MD hardware, it's more appealing to me.


Last edited by FinalBaton on Fri May 19, 2017 2:32 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:12 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
snes has final fantasy
you can't beat that

love Final Fantasy. But not everyone is heavy into JRPGs, eh?
I myself was a total JRPG hound in my teens and early adult years but nowaday I barely play 'em anymore. But I can certainly appreciate the genre tho.


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:03 pm 


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Right, we all understand how resolution works, now give me some examples of games on the MD that you personally think demonstrate the extra pixels well and capitalize on them to the degree where they outshine the SFC.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:28 pm 


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Will dig some pics when I'm off work.

In the meantime : I'm really disapointed that you guys won't admit the benefits of higher resolution... this is really dishonest (which is funny since Xyga told me earlier on the page that I was being dishonest. I guess this is just how the CONSOLE WAR goes :P ).


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:54 pm 


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Quote:
Funny, I always considered CV4's music a great example of all the weaknesses in the SNES soundchip.


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:25 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Will dig some pics when I'm off work.

In the meantime : I'm really disapointed that you guys won't admit the benefits of higher resolution... this is really dishonest (which is funny since Xyga told me earlier on the page that I was being dishonest. I guess this is just how the CONSOLE WAR goes :P ).

Nah nah nah, do what you will but I'm done on the topic of graphics, you're just wrong, and I don't think I could do anything to make you realize it if to begin you never did all these years. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ALL HAIL THE MEGADRIVE AND ITS HOLY GAEMZ! ... even if the SNES was objectively, overall superior. :P
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:04 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:
Will dig some pics when I'm off work.

In the meantime : I'm really disapointed that you guys won't admit the benefits of higher resolution... this is really dishonest (which is funny since Xyga told me earlier on the page that I was being dishonest. I guess this is just how the CONSOLE WAR goes :P ).

Nah nah nah, do what you will but I'm done on the topic of graphics, you're just wrong, and I don't think I could do anything to make you realize it if to begin you never did all these years. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ALL HAIL THE MEGADRIVE AND ITS HOLY GAEMZ! ... even if the SNES was objectively, overall superior. :P

I didn't say MD games were better, I said it's library was equal to snes :P so your tirade at the end there is completely off the mark

If you don't wanna admit that the MD offers as good a console gaming experience as the SNES, then it's your choice, there's nothing I can do to help with your tunnel vision, so I'm done also

Also, lol at "objectively".


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:21 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
tunnel vision

With that you're talking about yourself.

I have highlighted quite clearly what I believe are realistic differences between the two machines and their libraries. You just don't get the real strenghts and weaknesses of both and insist that there's a balance using the wrong arguments.
SkyKid got it, Strider77 got it, and I think most people in general got it, but you don't.
I think you're blinded by my statements about the overall superiority of the SNES, which are completely objective yes, and you didn't understand why me and the others still like the MD more.

Maybe if we had made that thorough comparison by genres, maybe you'd get it, but that's a gigantic task and I'm not really up for this at the moment.
Just hinting at BIL's threads maybe, since a large portion of the actual shit is found in those.

Again I can only do this; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:26 pm 



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Can we all agree to keep the word "objective" as far away from these sort of debates as possible? That angle just doesn't work.

An incompetent Internet journalist wrote:
Except it [Disney Afternoon Collection]'s not nearly as fun as you remember. You could buy a more modern game for $20 that is objectively better in almost every technically measurable way and would give you more hours of entertainment.

An incompetent Internet journalist wrote:
objectively
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:28 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
Maybe if we had made that thorough comparison by genres, maybe you'd get it, but that's a gigantic task and I'm not really up for this at the moment.
Just hinting at BIL's threads maybe, since a large portion of the actual shit is found in those.


Thanks but I have only one thread (Willy_RZR's Goodtime Sidescrolling Action Fun Club, aka Hardcore Action Murder Dungeon for Pwning Noobs). The leading MD and SFC ones are stryc9 and CIT's, respectively. :o Mine does have all kinds of good shit though. :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:29 pm 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
Can we all agree to keep the word "objective" as far away from these sort of debates as possible? That angle just doesn't work.

how come solid figures and information aren't objective?

I know we're supposed to be in the era of 'alt-facts' but for ffs.

@BIL: I say 'your threads' because of your so numerous valuable contributions. ;) I CAN FEEL THE LOVE
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:32 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:35 pm 



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People just suck at being 'objective' is all. Nothing wrong with your arguments, just asking you not to act like it all adds up to an 'objective' superiority.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:42 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
I have highlighted quite clearly what I believe are realistic differences between the two machines and their libraries. You just don't get the real strenghts and weaknesses of both

I could say the EXACT same thing of you, hehe

also I have given plenty of love to the SNES. And even admitted that it was a bit stronger console-wise. at 2 occasions, no-less. So I have no problems admitting the strenghts of the SNES.

But it looks like you, on the other hand, have problem admitting the strenghts of the Megadrive...


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:48 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Mine does have all kinds of good shit though. :wink:

Now THAT's what I'm talking about! Cheers BIL.


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:58 pm 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
People just suck at being 'objective' is all. Nothing wrong with your arguments, just asking you not to act like it all adds up to an 'objective' superiority.

I'm the embodiment of neither absolute nor unilateral. people just don't get it but it's one of my delights to see them go mad with everything I say because the points I make just slip past their egos.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:29 pm 


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Objectively.... higher resolution is a bonus.

I really want the mods to break this off into a new 16 bit wars thread so it can really get nasty.

16 bit warz bitch offs are fun AF.

PS: The SNES clearly is the superior machine when it comes to slowdown. They truly mastered that versus the MD.

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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:51 pm 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
Can we all agree to keep the word "objective" as far away from these sort of debates as possible? That angle just doesn't work.

Naw, objectively is the new figurative literally. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:11 pm 


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Mega Drive offers a 256x224 mode that many games used. And if you use the 320x224 mode, you sacrifice even more of the already-anemic VRAM for the additional graphics to fill that space. It's also important to keep the sprite limit in mind, Mega Drive only gives you 64 sprites (8 per line) on 256 wide, and 80/10 on 320 wide. Contrast to SFC with 128 sprites, with 32 per line. SFC not only has smaller space to fill, but more sprites to fill it with. Also, of course, the SFC does offer high-res modes in both vertical and horizontal axes, so you can have 512x224 on the SFC just fine.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:13 pm 


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cool, but does it have games


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:52 pm 


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Strider77 wrote:
PS: The SNES clearly is the superior machine when it comes to slowdown. They truly mastered that versus the MD.

Yeah because that's obviously caused by the system's unique slowdown ICs. God knows why Nintendo decided to include those. I guess they just did it because they really wanted it to be more than just 25% derp machine.

I agree with you on one thing though, some super bored mod should really move all the console war posts into a new flaming horrendous thread of people pretending to respect the opposite party.


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:57 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Strider77 wrote:
PS: The SNES clearly is the superior machine when it comes to slowdown. They truly mastered that versus the MD.

Yeah because that's obviously caused by the system's unique slowdown ICs. God knows why Nintendo decided to include those. I guess they just did it because they really wanted it to be more than just 25% derp machine.

Because Nintendo did slowdowns before Cave was cool.
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