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 Post subject: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:58 pm 


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Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 468
Location: 'Strailya
Top 25 Shmups of All Time (through 2016)
Code:
##. Game                                               Score  '02 '03 '04 '05 '06 '07 '08 '09 '10 '12 '13 '14 '15
01. DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou / Black Label (ARC/360/etc.)  7.66    *   +   +   +   +   +   +   ~   +   +   +   +   +
02. Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT/PS4)                        7.58    +   +   *   +   +   +   -   -   -   -   -   =   -
03. Ketsui ~Kizuna Jigoku Tachi~ (ARC/360/PS3)          6.71    .   *   *   *   *   *   +   =   +   =   =   +   -
04. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (ARC/360)  6.10    .   .   .   .   *   *   +   ~   ~   -   -   -   -
05. Armed Police Batrider (ARC)                         6.04    *   *   +   *   -   +   =   -   -   =   +   +   =
06. DoDonPachi (ARC/SAT/PSX)                            5.59    -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   =   -   -   +
07. Crimzon Clover / World Ignition (PC/NESiCA)         4.42    .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   *   *   *   +   -
08. RayForce / Layer Section / etc. (ARC/PS2/SAT/etc.)  4.15    *   -   +   +   +   +   +   *   *   *   +   =   =
09. Radiant Silvergun (ARC/SAT/360)                     3.95    +   -   -   -   -   -   +   +   *   +   +   +   +
10. Ikaruga (ARC/DC/GC/360/PC)                          3.80    -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   +   +   -   =
11. Mushihimesama / 1.5 (ARC/PS2/360/PC)                3.48    .   .   *   +   +   -   -   +   *   =   -   -   =
12. Mars Matrix (ARC/DC)                                3.43    +   +   -   -   +   +   =   -   +   -   +   +   +
13. Gradius V (PS2)                                     3.41    .   .   -   -   -   -   -   -   +   *   -   =   -
14. Strikers 1945 II (ARC/SAT/PSX/PS2)                  3.29    -   +   =   +   *   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +
15. Progear no Arashi (ARC)                             3.22    *   *   *   *   *   -   -   *   *   *   *   *   *
16. Gunbird 2 (ARC/DC)                                  3.19    +   -   -   +   =   *   *   +   -   -   +   +   *
17. R-Type (ARC/PCE/PSX/etc.)                           3.08    -   -   -   -   *   -   +   -   +   =   +   -   -
18. Dangun Feveron (ARC)                                3.05    *   *   *   *   *   *   -   -   *   *   *   *   *
19. Raiden Fighters Jet (ARC/360)                       2.91    *   *   *   *   *   *   -   -   -   -   -   +   -
20. Gradius Gaiden (PSX/PSP)                            2.904   +   -   -   -   -   -   *   -   *   +   *   *   +
21. Raiden DX (ARC/PSX)                                 2.901   *   *   -   +   -   *   -   *   -   *   -   *   *
22. Batsugun / Batsugun Special (ARC/SAT)               2.84    *   -   -   *   -   -   -   +   -   -   -   -   -
23. Darius Gaiden (ARC/SAT/PS1/PS2/PC)                  2.80    *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   =   *   *   -   -
24. Under Defeat (DC/ARC/360/PS3)                       2.64    .   .   .   *   +   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
25. Darius Burst: AC/EX/Chronicle Saviours (PC/etc.)    2.48    .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   *   *   *   *   -

  • = denotes the game holds the same position now as the year indicated.
  • + denotes the game holds an improved standing compared to the year indicated.
  • - denotes the game holds a reduced standing compared to the year indicated.
  • * denotes the game was not on the list for the year indicated.
  • . denotes the game was not released or otherwise eligible for voting for the year indicated.
  • ~ denotes the game vote was classified (significantly) differently for the year indicated.


Honourable Mention
Code:
Game                                                    '02 '03 '04 '05 '06 '07 '08 '09 '10 '12 '13 '14 '15
Akai Katana (ARC/360)                                     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   =   -   =   +
Battle Bakraid (ARC)                                      +   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   -   =   -   =
Border Down (DC/ARC)                                      .   +   =   -   -   -   -   =   +   +   =   =   =
Cho Ren Sha 68K (PC/X68)                                  +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   =   =   =   +   =
Deathsmiles / Mega Black Label (ARC/360)                  .   .   .   .   .   +   =   =   -   =   -   -   =
DoDonPachi Daifukkatsu / 1.5 / Resurrection (ARC/etc.)    .   .   .   .   .   .   +   +   =   -   =   =   =
DoDonPachi Saidaioujou (ARC/360)                          .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   -   -   =
DonPachi (ARC/SAT/PSX)                                    -   -   -   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   =
Dragon Blaze (ARC/PS2)                                    +   +   =   =   =   =   =   =   -   -   =   =   -
Einhänder (PSX)                                           =   =   -   -   -   =   =   =   =   =   =   +   =
Eschatos (360/PC)                                         .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   =   =   -   =
ESP Ra.De. (ARC)                                          -   -   -   -   -   -   -   =   =   =   =   =   =
ESPGaluda (ARC/PS2)                                       .   +   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
ESPGaluda II / Black Label (ARC/360)                      .   .   .   +   +   +   =   -   -   -   -   -   =
Flying Shark / Hishouzame / Sky Shark (ARC/NES/etc.)      +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   =   =   +
G-Darius (ARC/PS2/PSX)                                    +   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   +
Giga Wing (ARC/DC)                                        +   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   =   =   =
Gradius II: Gofer no Yabou (ARC/SAT/FC/etc.)              +   =   =   =   +   =   +   +   =   =   +   =   =
Great Fairy Wars [Touhou 12.8] (PC)                       .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   =   +   +
Guwange (ARC/360)                                         -   -   =   -   =   -   -   -   -   =   =   =   =
Ibara (ARC/PS2)                                           .   .   .   =   =   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
Judgement Silversword (WSC/360/PC)                        .   .   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +
Kamui (PC)                                                +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   =
Muchi Muchi Pork! (ARC/360)                               .   .   .   .   .   +   +   +   -   -   -   =   -
Perfect Cherry Blossom [Touhou 7] (PC)                    .   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   =   =   =   =   =
Phantasmagoria of Dim.Dream [Touhou 3] (PC)               +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +
Phantasmagoria of Flower View [Touhou 9] (PC)             .   .   .   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +
R-Type Delta (PSX)                                        =   =   -   -   -   =   +   =   =   =   =   =   =
Raiden Fighters 2: Operation Hell Dive (ARC/360)          +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   =   =   =   =   =
Soukyugurentai / Terra Diver (SAT/ARC/PSX)                -   -   -   -   -   -   =   -   =   -   =   =   =
Strikers 1999 / Strikers 1945 III (ARC)                   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   =   =   =   +   =
Thunder Dragon 2 (ARC)                                    +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   =
Thunder Force IV / Lightening Force (MD/GEN/SAT)          -   -   -   -   -   -   =   +   =   =   =   =   =
Twin Cobra / Kyukyoku Tiger (ARC/PCE/etc.)                +   =   +   +   =   =   +   +   +   =   +   =   +
Twinkle Star Sprites (ARC/SAT/DC/etc.)                    +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   =   +   +

  • = denotes the game was also on the HM list for the year indicated.
  • + denotes the game was on neither the HM list nor the top 25 for the year indicated.
  • - denotes the game was in the top 25 for the year indicated.
  • . denotes the game was not released or otherwise eligible for voting for the year indicated.



What Dropped from 2015's Top 25:
  • Dragon Blaze (ARC/PS2)
  • Eschatos (360/PC)
  • ESPGaluda (ARC/PS2)
  • Ibara (ARC/PS2)
  • Muchi Muchi Pork! (ARC/360)

What Dropped from 2015's Honourable Mentions:
  • Dimahoo / Great Mahou Daisakusen (ARC)
  • Imperishable Night [Touhou 8] (PC)
  • Pink Sweets ~Ibara Sorekara~ (ARC/360)
  • Salamander 2 (ARC/SAT/PSX)



Breakdown by Developer
Code:
                   Top 25         Hon.M.          Overall
Cave                  7               11             18
Raizing               2               2              4
Psikyo                2               2              4
Team Shanghai Alice   -               4              4
Treasure              3               -              3
Taito                 2               1              3
Seibu Kaihatsu        2               1              3
Toaplan               1               2              3
Irem                  1               1              2
Takumi                1               1              2
G.rev                 1               1              2
Konami                1               1              2
Qute                  -               2              2
Yotsubane             1               -              1
Pyramid               1               -              1
Siter Skain           -               1              1
NMK                   -               1              1
Famibe no Yosshin     -               1              1
Squaresoft            -               1              1
Technosoft            -               1              1
ADK                   -               1              1



Breakdown by Original Platform
Code:
System             Top 25         Hon.M.          Overall
Arcade                22             24              46
PC/Windows             1              5               6
PlayStation            1              2               3
PlayStation 2          1              -               1
Xbox 360               -              1               1
Mega Drive/Genesis     -              1               1
X68000                 -              1               1
WonderSwan Color       -              1               1



Most Personal Honourable Mentions
Code:
Game                                                No. of appearances
Dragon Blaze (ARC/PS2)                                    4
Armed Police Batrider (ARC)                               3
Crimzon Clover / World Ignition (PC/NESiCA)               3
Flying Shark / Hishouzame / Sky Shark (ARC/NES/etc.)      3
Gate of Thunder (TCD/Wii)                                 3
RayForce / Layer Section / etc. (ARC/PS2/SAT/etc.)        3
Soukyugurentai / Terra Diver (SAT/ARC/PSX)                3
Strikers 1999 / Strikers 1945 III (ARC)                   3



Miscellaneous Stats:
  • Number of Counted Voters: 72
  • Total Vote Weight: 69.0
  • Number of Games Voted For: 379
  • Number of Honourable Mentions: 35
  • Proportion of Voters who chose to use a Shortlist: 0.16 (10/72)
  • Proportion of Voters who chose to include Personal Honourable Mentions: 0.24 (17/72)
  • Proportion of Personal Honourable Mentions included where eligible: 0.27 (17/62)
  • Number of Games Receiving Only [0]'s: 25
  • Games Supported by at least half of voters (≥34.5 combined): 4
  • Games Supported by at least 1/4 of voters (≥17.3 combined): 26
  • Top 25 Score Spread: 2.482 - 7.659
  • Honourable Mention Score Spread: 1.307 - 2.480
  • Total Score Spread: 0.036 - 7.659



Random Comments:
  • Roll up, roll up! The winner of this years' top-rated-game-that-gets-slightly-more-votes-than-usual lottery turned out to be DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou, breaking the ancient pattern of victories and heralding the dawn (???) of a new era of semi-volatility, contrasted somewhat ironically by years of Cave hype gradually wearing off as new titles appear and old ones regain form. Their their own results in turn were buffed by the surprise eighth-year resurgence of Progear no Arashi and Dangun Feveron.
  • While Eschatos was not able to maintain its momentum, this year has finally seen the long-awaited entry of Judgement Silversword into the honourary list of most honourably honourable mentionables, marking what I believe to be the first handheld original release ever to acquire such appeciation. Much to the participants' literal horror and confusion, the other new entries appear to be the two Phantasmagoria PC games.
  • The discussion thread for this year's poll is here.
  • The votes for this year's poll can be found here.
  • The full results have definitely been posted here.
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Last edited by Nifty on Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:26 pm 


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Thanks again for the work you put into this. :)
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:29 pm 


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^^^Ditto

R-Type, Rayforce, and Dangun placing as high as they did makes me happy.
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:47 pm 


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Shouldn't Battle Garegga be ARC/SAT/PS4?

Many of the titles I would have voted for made it in.
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:11 pm 


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DOJ finally on #1, Progear now joins the club, and Salamander 2 got dropped.

Oh my...
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:24 pm 


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Thank you Nifty!

Mmh...
Not a single ESP game in the top 25
Dragon Blaze below Strikers II and Gunbird 2
16bit shooters barely represented, only in the honourable mentions even
Mars Matrix went up
DOJ finally #1 indeed, which must make a lot of people happy
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:58 pm 


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I wonder how much Raiden V is held back by its exclusivity. I think it looks fun (better than III/IV at least) but unless it gets ported I will likely never play it.
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:06 pm 


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01. DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou

you done good, shump farm

only 18 Cave games though. next year let's aim higher.
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:45 pm 



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Only 72 voters? Is the voter count usually this low?
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:34 pm 


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Thanks for putting all this together Nifty!

WelshMegalodon wrote:
Only 72 voters? Is the voter count usually this low?

It's decreased every year since 2012 but it's only 1 fewer than last year.
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:56 am 


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I wish I knew what people like so much about RFJ specifically. I'd personally rather play either of the other two.

Also cool to see a minor upset in the #1 spot!
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:01 am 


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*ahem*

Sooo, very minor wholly non-intentional flub on my end. At first I thought I should be dividing by total number of votes instead of total vote weight in order to be more accurate. Turns out the latter doesn't change nearly as much as I thought it would, without the downside of artificially slightly shrinking the game scores like they had been. I've rerun the numbers and updated the OP to reflect this change, meaning that now... RFJ is ahead of Gradius Gaiden and everything else is the same. Um, prank'd, I guess?
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:06 am 


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Wow, that was a quick turnover. Thanks for all the hardwork, Nifty.

I am really surprised that Battle Garage got knocked out of its spot; I thought it had been comfortably settling in as top-shmup dog around here. I can't complain too hard because DOJ hurts so good.

Some curious Cave choices though! Dangun Feveron must be riding off of its PS4 release (that happened, right?) because otherwise it's only made the list twice in over ten years. There must be something others see in it that I do not. Though on the other hand I am somewhat glad to see other obscure Cave titles slide off and make room for some other games.

I likewise can't complain about Strikers 2 and Gunbird representing Psikyo's best, though the loss of Dragon Blaze is sorely felt. And three Taito games (well, 2 and a half?)! Who would have thought? Darius fandom really must have grown over the years to push Gaiden into the top echelon. I love the game for as sloppy as it can be. :lol: Two Gradius games as well, which is a shocker. Gradius V is one of those stalwarts that seems to have been on the list since its release, and Gaiden is the game that everyone loves that I never played. Nonetheless, Konami showing up on the list makes me happy.

I think it's interesting to note that on the whole list, only two games have been released "recently", being Crimzon Clover and DariusBurst. Newer shooters have some pretty stiff competition to muscle their way into the list, with these two examples either clearly aping the DDP formula (and doing it well, apparently), and the other being a mega-collection of shooting stages from a well-established series.

Nifty wrote:
Much to the participants' literal horror and confusion, the other new entries appear to be the two Phantasmagoria PC games.


To nobody's surprise, because true shooter connoisseurs recognize the genre-bending greatness of the Phantasmagoria PC games!

Pictured: hardcore shmup action the way only Phantasmagoria can provide
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:19 am 


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The Phantasmagoria of Dimensional Dreams is the future.
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:24 am 


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People here know how much of a Garegga fan I am, but really, DOJ BL totally deserves that place for some time. Very good top 25.

Thank you Nifty!
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:00 am 


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Thank you for the work put into this.

I must say that this is a surprisingly well-rounded list, probably one of the best we ever had when it comes to representing different facets of the genre.

I have to quote myself from the last result thread, though:

Last time I wrote:
Also, no Shiki II? You people.


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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:57 am 


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Thank you Nifty !
I obviously don't expect my more niche choices to be featured in the top, so I am just glad Dangun Feveron is there. Such a fantastic game, I hope the upcoming PS4 version makes more people try it out. (@EmpereorIng : Well, it is still not out... :lol: )

Herr Schatten wrote:
Also, no Shiki II? You people.

I prefer and have voted for Shiki 3 myself mostly for its scoring system that moves a bit away for grazing, though I wish it had 2's atmosphere. Out of curiosity, what do you prefer in Shiki 2 compared to the two others?
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:24 am 



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Squire Grooktook wrote:
The Phantasmagoria of Dimensional Dreams is the future.

Indeed. Glad to see it and PoFV making it into the HMs.
It seems Twkinle Star Sprites also made it; a great year for vs shmups.

I'll still go grab the torches and pitforks for Dragon Blaze dropping out of the top, though.

Thanks for the work, Nifty!
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:05 am 


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Thanks a lot for your ceaseless enthusiasm and work, Nifty!

Herr Schatten wrote:
I must say that this is a surprisingly well-rounded list, probably one of the best we ever had when it comes to representing different facets of the genre.

Almost one third of the games are from Cave, modern games are disproportionally represented considering their quantity, some prestigious developers such as Capcom or Namco are not even close to having a single game in either the top 25 or the HM, several platforms are completely out of the picture... You might like the results as they are, but stating that the list is well-rounded - in a "statistical" manner, as it were - is just wrong. It's extremely lopsided and everyone knows it.

I will say that I'm glad for the increase in Touhou games: I don't know anything about them but it always struck me as weird that they, too, were almost not present at all. That is indeed one step in the right direction.
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:49 am 


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I'm surprised MechaRitz didn't even get a mention even though most everyone seems to love it + it has the advantage of being a recent release.
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:21 pm 


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Could we heave whole list? I wanna see if there were 2 more votes for some obscurities i mentioned XD


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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:25 pm 


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Nifty wrote:
The full results will definitely be posted at some point.

:wink:
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:37 pm 


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Perikles wrote:
Almost one third of the games are from Cave, modern games are disproportionally represented considering their quantity

maybe because they're disproportionally less garbage


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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:39 pm 


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Only in the eyes of plebeians.
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:54 pm 


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Quote:
You might like the results as they are, but stating that the list is well-rounded - in a "statistical" manner, as it were - is just wrong. It's extremely lopsided and everyone knows it.


...accept that people love their cave/raizing/whatever is popular/.. games :roll:

My #1 was DeltaZeal, was it ever in top25? lol
not even mentioning stuff like saint dragon


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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:02 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
maybe because they're disproportionally less garbage

qmish wrote:
...accept that people love their cave/raizing/whatever is popular/.. games :roll:

I believe there's a bit of a misunderstanding here: I'm not arguing whether or not there should be that many Cave games or what have you on the list. My reply was geared towards Herr Schatten's statement that the list is "well-rounded" and represents "different facets of the genre" which is objectively questionable. You can say that the list contains those games that are important for the genre, or those games that are best-suited for the list, or flat-out the best games. But considering the imbalanced tendency, you cannot really say this list is a good representation of the entire genre. That would be like creating a canon of literature where 90% of the books on it are from the 20th century and onwards.
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:17 pm 


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Ah, that's fate of such lists, especially like similar on NeoGAF etc. because they only show current active participants' input... yeah, captain obvious?

For something "well rounded", need to look for lists written by single person who is knowledgable enough to do so.


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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:36 pm 


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the list is well rounded though

it has bullet hell and more oldschool games, it has horis and verts and even gimmicky shit like ikaruga
it represents almost all subgenres with the best games they have

you can start complaining when it's top to the bottom bullet hell verts, 7 games out of 25 being cave ain't shit


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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:12 pm 


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This is actually the most horis on a top 25 that I think I have ever seen on this forum; for years it would be just one or two.
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 Post subject: Re: 14th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:37 pm 


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You have to put in numerical perspective, however.

How many Cave games are there in total? 25 or so? 18 of those made it either into the top 25 or the HM. That's significantly more than half of the output of this one developer.

Compare that to a few other examples:

- There are well above 100 games pre-1984. You know, those fixed verticals and embryonic games. 0 of those are on either list.

- There are well above 100 games on 8-bit consoles. 0 of those are on either list.

- Between the PCE, MD and SFC (with all the add-ons), there are some 200 games. 1 of those made it on the HM.

- I don't even know how many classic games there are for all sorts of computers. If you add all of them together you'd certainly end up with a few hundred I'd imagine. 1 of those made it on the HM.

- There are innumerable phalanges of arcade shmups from '84 to, say, '94 or '95. A handful of those made it on the top 25 and the HM.

- Several developers with a respectable quantity of games are not represented anywhere.


To reiterate my point from the last post: I'm not saying there's any necessity to include each and all of these items or even one of them. I personally don't care about ancient single-screen shooters, Amiga shmups or developers such as Dooyong, either. And I also have no problem accepting that most people here deem Cave's efforts to be particularly worthwhile games that deserve high rankings on the list. However, I find it odd to postulate that there's an inherent balance to that list when several hundreds of games have not a single ambassador or one at the absolute best while the vast majority of Cave titles is somewhere to be found. Seems like a curious definition of "well-rounded". It's simply a fact that particular types of games are overrepresented while others are underrepresented. Whether or not that's a good thing is a completely different question altogether.
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