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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on NG:DEV.team STGs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:57 am 


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Joined: 26 Jun 2005
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
I've never played any of their games because none of their games are on any accessible platforms.

And unless that changes, I probably never will.

Devs releasing their games at a "low sales/high price" pedestal rather than low price/high sales on modern platforms is basically saying they're looking at bumming money off collectors that will buy anything for the novelty factor rather than those that are likely to actually play the games in any depth. In that case I can't trust the developers nor the people that buy them.

This doesn't exclusively apply to these guys either. It applies to anyone wanting to release games on obsolete platforms, arbitrary platforms made to run a specific game or otherwise financially pointless platforms (ie. PSP in current year), only for them to profit from novelty. And yes, JAMMA is also obsolete.
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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on NG:DEV.team STGs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:52 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2011
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Location: Denmark
Sure, it's free points for novelty. But I don't think it's fair to just scoff at the "low sales/high price" model. It's less than ideal for consumers, but games like this have a very limited appeal even if they were to be released on something broad like Steam (and to be honest, to me personally, MVS is a much much more accessible platform than Steam). By being able to recoup their costs from considerably fewer sales, producing games like this comes at a much lower risk.

So far all of their games except from one has enjoyed cheap ports for Dreamcast, for those of us who don't have big bucks to spend on Neo Geo cartridges, anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on NG:DEV.team STGs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:09 am 


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Exactly. Shmups can actually get away with this because there are small amounts of well-off people willing to buy them. Until this changes, trying to release such a game as "accessible" but dirt cheap is a surefire way to both devalue the entire genre and to lose a ton of possible money. Are collectors going to collect? Yes, obviously. There's nothing you can do about those people.

Arcades are obsolete, and have been for years. So are physical releases, because the digital future where noone owns anything is the future of choice. See, I can trivialize everything too!
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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on NG:DEV.team STGs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:51 pm 


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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
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Neo XYX is really good, especially in the latest patch revision. I've owned all their games, this is the one I still own, anyone who enjoys Toaplan games should take a look if they can.

As for the business model, cry all you like - this is what works for them. I love seeing plysical games released for old hardware. Fuck PC and Fuck Digital, you can't make a day job out selling 2000 games at $10 (or less) each when a game takes a handful of people over a year to make. You can't put food on the table that way, and it's folly to try.
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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on NG:DEV.team STGs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:58 pm 


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I feel like I come down somewhere in between Despatche's and Elixers arguments.

Yeah it works for them, and I guess that's fine, but I'm not "well off" enough to throw money at them for this kind of purchase, and I know many of my shmupping brethren are also too poor to buy every single 5-15 dollar stg on steam, let alone stuff like this.

I also don't believe that small price tags necessarily "devalue" the genre. I believe it's probably a bit more complex then that, but "accessible" has probably worked out more for many small-time devs with already small budgets then not. It's the kind of thing that's best evaluated on a case by case basis.
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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on NG:DEV.team STGs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:52 pm 


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system11 wrote:
Fuck PC and Fuck Digital, you can't make a day job out selling 2000 games at $10 (or less) each when a game takes a handful of people over a year to make. You can't put food on the table that way, and it's folly to try.

if you're trying to make a living making something that's as dead as shmups, you're dumb as hell (note: they're not making money off shmups but overpriced "retro" stuff)
doujin is the future and they can take all the time they want for a single game

Despatche wrote:
Arcades are obsolete, and have been for years.

correct
releasing their mediocre games on something as outdated as pcbs is a total joke

Despatche wrote:
So are physical releases

correct

honestly you're better off just making shmups in game maker
it's easy, works just fine and you can instead focus on making the gameplay suck less
except then you can't sell it for $400


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on NG:DEV.team STGs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:07 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
Despatche wrote:
So are physical releases

correct

honestly you're better off just making shmups in game maker
it's easy, works just fine and you can instead focus on making the gameplay suck less
except then you can't sell it for $400


Only really works if you're making games in your spare time and have another job, or you're still living at home.

As for the death of physical - ask Limited Run how many copies of each game they have left over from print runs. There's still a market of people who like to own real things. If you want one of their titles, your options are hammering reload when the stock is released, or buying it on ebay. Watch the Darius release sell out when it hits, in minutes.
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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on NG:DEV.team STGs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:35 am 


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They're "Limited Run" because if they made their runs significantly larger they wouldn't sell out so fast, if at all. The few people who want it will be hammering reload, yes, but that doesn't say anything about the rest.

High price, low volume works for NG:DEV.team because the demand in their niche is relatively inelastic. If that works best for them, more power to them. I personally don't care either way since I've never been particularly interested in their games.

Squire Grooktook wrote:
I also don't believe that small price tags necessarily "devalue" the genre.

If they did then the genre's been worthless ever since Cho Ren Sha 68k was released as freeware.
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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on NG:DEV.team STGs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:28 am 


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I'm of the mindset that the residual income over time from digital releases of their games would make it worth the effort in bringing them to platforms like Steam. Sure, they might only make so much at the launch of each release, but the idea is to have sales trickle in over years, not just blowing their load all at once with limited, shotgun-approach, enthusiast-only runs. New players are discovering the genre on a regular basis and are constantly looking for new content on Steam, so surely even a small amount of sales here and there across multiple titles will add up over time. I mean, if you don't make something available for sale, how is anyone supposed buy it? I think HuCast has the right idea with bringing out ReDux and Ghost Blade to modern platforms, and it would probably benefit NG:DEV if they followed suit.
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