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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:47 am 


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Damn, I should've voted! I could've moved RayForce up a spot :) And maybe Souky and TF3 wouldn't have dropped off
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:47 am 



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EmperorIng wrote:
God wrote:
There's the 3 treasure games and R-Type...what's number 5?

RayForce, man. It's definitely hell, but just a different type.


Thanks. I thought it might be RayForce. I'll have to give that one another whirl! :)


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:51 am 


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The ones I don't really get are complaints like "oh man this one game is slightly higher than this other game I like slightly more by the same company this sucks". What about all the other games that are way out of place? Like Guardian Force
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:43 am 


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Like Thunder Dragon 2 and Bakraid
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:40 pm 


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Really wanted to see Ginga Force crack the top 25 - was such a great game and nice change of pace.

No Thunderforce 3 is a god damn tragedy. :evil: It's bad enough more classics like Super Fantasy Zone, Darius, Choplifter and Power Strike don't show up. Damn kids and their bullet hells.

Seeing BG at the top is not a surprise. It's an amazing game, but I wont be placing it in my top 3 next year - I love it, but really want to see a new #1.


BTW - please sticky this thread!
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:52 am 



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How about in the Honorable Mentions list? I'm seeing two Darius games, two Gradius, a Thunder Force, a R-Type, Metal Black and Flying Shark. It's possible one or two are slipping by me, especially if they're verts.

soupbones wrote:
No Thunderforce 3 is a god damn tragedy. :evil:


I'm pretty sure, as a former #2, this is the farthest any game has ever fallen.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:04 am 


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Next year, I think BG, MF 1.5 and Kets will all dominate the Top three spots again. Their popularity has been steadily growing over the last three years. And the votes show it.

01. Battle Garegga (AC/SAT).............................................. 6.76 < 7.15 < 7.18
02. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (AC/360)...... 4.03 < 6.72 < 6.82
03. Ketsui ~Kizuna Jigoku Tachi~ (AC/360)........................ 5.61 < 6.11 < 6.48

DP and DDP: DOJ are all popular titles with enough staying power to sticker around in the top 10, but not enough fan support to own the top three.

04. DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou / Black Label (ARC/360/etc.)... 5.85 < 6.08 > 6.04
05. DoDonPachi (ARC/SAT/PSX).......................................... 5.56 > 5.15 < 5.67

Batrider and Batsugun are getting cold--fast. I expect the boards to drop some more and make some more room at the top. So what happened: Did someone turn off the heat or did we just move on? :lol:

06. Armed Police Batrider (ARC).......................................... 6.08 > 5.88 > 5.61
08. Batsugun / Batsugun Special (ARC/SAT)....................... 2.92 < 3.86 > 3.51

Mushi, ESPG2, RS are all on the rise. I expect these board to keep moving up and put some pressure on the top 10. Ok, I admit it: Cave is just crack; but why RS? Is it really better that much better than Ikaruga? Or is Ikaruga just that much worse than RS?

07. Mushihimesama (ARC/PS2/360).................................... HM < 3.39 < 3.74
09. ESPGaluda II (ARC/360)................................................ 3.04 < 3.28 < 3.50
10. Radiant Silvergun (ARC/SAT/360).................................. HM < 3.20 < 3.48


Last edited by Tyranix95 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:19 am 


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I think RSG's XBLA release definitely factored into its breaking into the top 10 spot. A lot more people could now properly enjoy the game as opposed to the few that owned a copy or figured out Saturn emulation to play it.

A lot more people played it and I think voted accordingly (I only just figured out Saturn emulation myself, so I've just scratched its surface).

Ketsui has made the largest gains according to your numbers, which is interesting, to say the least. Mushi Futari and Garegga by contrast, hit a plateau that I don't know will drastically increase.

@God: The honorable mentions list is certainly more varied, diverse, and fun 8) in terms of games listed.

@Nifty: I just ordered Guardian Force so I'll probably vote for that next year :wink: Same with Mars Matrix.
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:47 am 


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MF 1.5 made a 2.79 pt. gain over the last few years. At this rate, it'll be MF 3.0. :lol:

And Mushi made it off the HM list and into the top 10. So, it may just take over the six spot next year. Idk, that may depend more on batrider though. :shock:

Be exciting to watch.

---

Spots 1~4 are clustered way up near the top 10, 5 & 6 in the middle, and 7~10 way down near the bottom. Makes a nice curve.

The are 15 games (sports 9~24) on the list are all packed together within a 1 point range of each other. They look like they are all jocking around for ground on the chart. Clearly the back of the pack is fat.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:31 am 


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It's a list governed purely by the availability of the material. Mushi made it up there because of the 360 release, Futari made no.2 for the same reason. Garrega in contrast, is there based on godliness, which makes it a much more deserving no.1

Basically the entire thing is and always will be broke until everything being voted for is 10 years old and there's been nothing on the shmup horizon for a similar length of time to sway opinions.

And where the fuck is Crimzon Clover? HM's?

Come on.
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:29 am 


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Well, Ketsui's fucking awesome, so I'm not surprised it's going places.
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:30 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
It's a list governed purely by the availability of the material. Mushi made it up there because of the 360 release, Futari made no.2 for the same reason. Garrega in contrast, is there based on godliness, which makes it a much more deserving no.1


I gotta disagree here. Futari is available, but certainly not more available than everything in Mame, right? And, its just as available as Espgaluda II, and DFK (which didn't even make top 10) is even easier to get your hands on than Futari.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:29 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
It's a list governed purely by the availability of the material. Mushi made it up there because of the 360 release, Futari made no.2 for the same reason. Garrega in contrast, is there based on godliness, which makes it a much more deserving no.1

Basically the entire thing is and always will be broke until everything being voted for is 10 years old and there's been nothing on the shmup horizon for a similar length of time to sway opinions.

And where the fuck is Crimzon Clover? HM's?

Come on.


I am also suprised because of the lack of love to Crimzon Clover.

About the availability of the material, Garrega has a well known saturn port in contrart to batrider or bakraid.
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:36 pm 


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arcade-stg wrote:
About the availability of the material, Garrega has a well know saturn port in contrart to batrider or bakraid.


But not widely available, discounting mame.

The point is that a lot of entries claw votes from people collecting things on the 360 and being all "OMFGthisis awesome votevotevote!"

It's still a decent list though.
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:39 pm 


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If that were true, then shouldn't DFK and Eschatos be on the list? If we are assuming enough votes come from 360 collectors to sway the poll, that is.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:15 pm 



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I think people are biased towards voting for games they think are really good. :P


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:26 pm 



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dunpeal2064 wrote:
If that were true, then shouldn't DFK and Eschatos be on the list? If we are assuming enough votes come from 360 collectors to sway the poll, that is.


DFK would have been in top 10 had not its Black Label been seperated; which I disagree with.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:09 pm 


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soupbones wrote:
No Thunderforce 3 is a god damn tragedy. :evil: It's bad enough more classics like Super Fantasy Zone, Darius, Choplifter and Power Strike don't show up. Damn kids and their bullet hells.


Power Strike 1 on SMS? I wanted to like it, but couldn't get anywhere in it! I wouldn't mind a strategy thread if one doesn't already exist.

I think Power Strike 2 is a masterpiece. And the GG ones look very good, too, though I haven't spent enough time with them.
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:58 pm 


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Special weapon 2. Hold button 2 to charge it, which creates a nice barrier in front of your ship - use button 1 at the same time to shoot stuff with your main shot. Release button 2 to fire, damaging everything in its path. You can easily power up your main shot by the end of stage 1, so you should be fairly indestructable after that.

Or power up special weapon 1 to level 4 - it starts to destroy orange bullets at that point and never runs out.

Best game ever.
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:48 am 



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Skykid wrote:
It's a list governed purely by the availability of the material. Mushi made it up there because of the 360 release, Futari made no.2 for the same reason. Garrega in contrast, is there based on godliness, which makes it a much more deserving no.1

Basically the entire thing is and always will be broke until everything being voted for is 10 years old and there's been nothing on the shmup horizon for a similar length of time to sway opinions.


Well any kind of vote like this is going to be a popularity contest; they have to be. All kinds of things can influence popularity, like quality & availability.

If you want to minimize the popularity aspect and search for hidden gem type games, just look for games that have few votes but have been ranked very highly by the few people who did vote for them. Somebody put a game about space dicks at the top of his list. I can't imagine that got a lot of votes so that'd show up on the hidden gem radar.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:00 am 


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royalfan84 wrote:
dunpeal2064 wrote:
If that were true, then shouldn't DFK and Eschatos be on the list? If we are assuming enough votes come from 360 collectors to sway the poll, that is.


DFK would have been in top 10 had not its Black Label been seperated; which I disagree with.


Why, it's a completely different game?
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:13 am 


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Skykid wrote:
Why, it's a completely different game?


No, it's a different mode/release of DFK. "Completely" would sorta have to be.. well, entirely.

It is ridiculous to have certain games separated simply because they are slightly more altered than the original, while others are grouped together.
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:34 am 


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EmperorIng wrote:
Guardian Force

Oh man, I knew I forgot something. That game is so great. :D
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:58 am 


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chempop wrote:
Skykid wrote:
Why, it's a completely different game?


No, it's a different mode/release of DFK. "Completely" would sorta have to be.. well, entirely.

It is ridiculous to have certain games separated simply because they are slightly more altered than the original, while others are grouped together.


I suppose, but DFK BL only has graphical assets in common. Even the audio is different. We wouldn't group Ibara with Ibara Kuro, right?

The other combinations are arguable, but I see where you're coming from.
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:03 am 


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louisg wrote:
soupbones wrote:
No Thunderforce 3 is a god damn tragedy. :evil: It's bad enough more classics like Super Fantasy Zone, Darius, Choplifter and Power Strike don't show up. Damn kids and their bullet hells.


Power Strike 1 on SMS? I wanted to like it, but couldn't get anywhere in it! I wouldn't mind a strategy thread if one doesn't already exist.

I think Power Strike 2 is a masterpiece. And the GG ones look very good, too, though I haven't spent enough time with them.


Power Strike is GG Aleste on the Game Gear, isn't it? I beat that on my first attempt. It's ridiculously easy. Don't think I've tried the SMS version.
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:08 am 


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Only just catching up on this. A Psyvariar game didn't even make the honourable mentions list this time? I thought there were more fans!
Great list though, and the extra data is fascinating. Thanks again Nifty (and all who voted! Next year, more of you vote too!).
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:42 pm 



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To me; it's part of the package. If DFK BL were a different game- or seperate game it would have been released under a seperate title. Ultra and Maniac on Futari are different experiences than normal mode, the 3 versions of Akai Katana all play with enough difference. But they are variations of the same title. If you like BL DFK better than the other modes that's great; but it's still DFK.

To me; you should either seperate all special modes of all games or none at all. One could argue that picking which "weapon type or character" in various games drastically changes the way the game is played....Gradius V type 2 and so on and so on.

That's just my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:15 pm 


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louisg wrote:
Power Strike 1 on SMS? I wanted to like it, but couldn't get anywhere in it! I wouldn't mind a strategy thread if one doesn't already exist.

Just power up weapon 1 all the way. It deals a lot of damage, can shoot in every direction and gains enemy bullets destroying qualities after a couple of levels. Plus it never runs out.

DocHauser wrote:
Power Strike is GG Aleste on the Game Gear, isn't it? I beat that on my first attempt. It's ridiculously easy. Don't think I've tried the SMS version.

No, that's a different game.

Power Strike 1 (SMS) is a port of Aleste (MSX). Power Strike II (SMS), however is an independent game and not related to Aleste 2 (MSX). The two Game Gear games share only the names of the Master System releases and, again, are completely different games.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:18 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
We wouldn't group Ibara with Ibara Kuro, right?


In this event, shmups forum game over.
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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:38 pm 


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royalfan84 wrote:
To me; it's part of the package. If DFK BL were a different game- or seperate game it would have been released under a seperate title.


Er, it was. A completely separate 360 release, in-fact, bundled with Ketsupachi. So yeah, massively different enough to warrant an entire independent disc pressing and sale.

One of the coolest things Cave ever did for console, IMO.
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