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 Post subject: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:01 pm 


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Joined: 25 Nov 2011
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Location: Finland
I would like to talk about arcades.
What is it/would be like to play, for example ketsui in a real arcade hall? (Which I've never seen, videos don't count)
If you're playing real money, do players usually just suicide aggressively if they fail at 1-1 or 1-2?
How the hell does someone have enough free time to clear loops if they can't even play the game at home?
Another thread full of questions, this is becoming my bravura.
Share all your experiences about shmup-halls please.
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:08 pm 


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No matter how many times it's said, I will keep saying it.

Three or four guys sitting around watching another guy play are all analyzing the shit out of what's going on...Next guy goes, incorporates [potentially modified] strategy that he saw the last guy use, etc.

It's a lot different if you are playing on a cabinet with people around in a building made for playing the games. Not only do you try harder, but the guys watching you can pay a lot more attention when they're not occupied with playing.

Lots of players get monthly passes so they don't run out of money quickly. They only start suiciding if they're trying to get the new WR, because every fuckup is now a waste of time. For everyone else, it's a matter of getting as much out of each credit as they possibly can. Never restart, never surrender. Beat the fucking shit out of the game.

I bet anyone who likes eggs could have told you that.

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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:10 pm 


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If you're in the vicinity to at least watch all the other players before/after you, you'll progress remarkably quicker, even if the other players aren't gods. Half of your progress will be made without even playing the game, merely watching everyone else die/succeed in certain areas.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:15 pm 


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Vyxx wrote:
If you're in the vicinity to at least watch all the other players before/after you, you'll progress remarkably quicker, even if the other players aren't gods. Half of your progress will be made without even playing the game, merely watching everyone else die/succeed in certain areas.


Indeed, which is why it's retarded that no one has set up ventrilo servers and public streams to emulate this purpose. I was going to do it, but then I started eating eggs.

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Still thinking about creating EGGCHAN: for all your fake arcade needs

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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:17 pm 


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A good way to emulate the things said above is to watch multiple replays. By watching multiple replays, you can see the different success and failures of different players. Player A might have a better stage 1 score than Player B, but Player B dominates Player A in stage 3. I remember watching one random Ketsui replay where the player did something in stage 3 that blew my mind because I was having so much trouble with that part.

You can use all these replays to build a route that is completely optimized by using the best of each of the different replays. That is probably how a lot of arcade players form their routes.

After that, you just gotta worry about your execution.
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:35 pm 


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Wtf is going on with the thread title? Arcade halls OF DOOM? Did I really write that? Damn I should get more sleep :lol:
TLB, I completely understand now, that was a very good short explanation. (eggs?)
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:48 pm 


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Is there a service that would allow a group of us to all stream, switching off on credits easily?
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:49 pm 


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Deca wrote:
Is there a service that would allow a group of us to all stream, switching off on credits easily?


that would be so geeky and cool


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:13 pm 


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This is what the shmupmeets forum is for. Ever been to one of those?

Get a bunch of people who play these kind of games all linking minds and sharing techniques, and see the results yourself.
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:14 pm 


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Deca wrote:
Is there a service that would allow a group of us to all stream, switching off on credits easily?


Each guy make a stream on justin.tv or something similar and take turns. when you're not playing, you're watching the guy whos playing.
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:21 pm 


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Jeneki wrote:
This is what the shmupmeets forum is for. Ever been to one of those?

Get a bunch of people who play these kind of games all linking minds and sharing techniques, and see the results yourself.


Yep, very fun, although the last time I went, I was still so noob that I just made myself look like an ass trying to talk about shmups.

I'm looking forward to the next one.

I think its still a bit different from a local arcade though, where you could walk in weekly and have a group of people working on the same game, whereas most shmupmeets happen 4-5 times a year, and the games change each time. There isn't taht sense of group progression.

Looking through the Casino arcade forum, I really wish I lived near there. I would love to bring in a board and have it make money at an arcade, and having a bunch of different people progressing at that game.

Those are just pipe dreams though, there is no arcade scene around here. I can't even get my gamer friends even slightly into shmups.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:26 pm 



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1up wrote:
Deca wrote:
Is there a service that would allow a group of us to all stream, switching off on credits easily?


Each guy make a stream on justin.tv or something similar and take turns. when you're not playing, you're watching the guy whos playing.


I would totally take part in something like this.

Here's what the Japanese are doing
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:31 pm 


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1up wrote:
Deca wrote:
Is there a service that would allow a group of us to all stream, switching off on credits easily?


Each guy make a stream on justin.tv or something similar and take turns. when you're not playing, you're watching the guy whos playing.

Something like this would be a dream come true...
Most times I really feel lonely when I'm playing alone, sometimes I start a ventrilo chat with my friends just for comfort. Which is far away from being too close when shmupping all alone.
When teh elite plays, noob watches and learns. When teh noob plays, teh elite teaches.
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:34 pm 


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I'd be down for this as well, if anything to watch Erppo and learn some things.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:35 pm 


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Look into GGPO...

It's a "lagless" system for playing vs. fighting games via emulation over the internet.

I'm sure that it's not *just* for fighting games...

Anything with 2 player could technically be used.

I think they even have "lobbys" set up so people waiting to play can watch the two fools ahead of them.


GGPO....the only worthwhile to come from the SRK forums.....aside from the technical \ custom stick threads :)
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:00 pm 


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I've been to some meets in the area but noone ever seems to be playing particularly seriously at them. I've never seen anyone really tear it up on anything.

One of the first ones I went to was extremely beneficial to me however, one of the other guys explained some of the finer points of Garegga and birdbombing to me and I was able to go from struggling to reach the st3 boss to beating Black Heart during my first encounter with him within a few credits. I can only imagine how much better I'd be if I had some serious players to meet with on a constant basis :(
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:31 am 


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I'd totally be up for an online "meet" of sorts sometime. I like the justin/twitch.tv idea, maybe set up a skype/vent chat and post a link to the individual's stream when they go for a run. Would be an interesting idea, especially since I do a lot of streaming on twitch myself anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:15 am 


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WTF they banned TLB? :cry:

Anyway I think the "everbody watches everybody" thing gets overplayed. While it definitely happens when I was there it was far more common to see guys just play 1 credit then get up and leave. Besides that there wasn't a whole lot of great playing to watch as the STG section of the arcades seemed pretty dead compared to rhythm and fighting game parts. Also while not many of the casuals here take advantage of it I don't see how a serious player is at that big a disadvantage through all the downloadable replays that are available.

I think the reason why they're so much better is simply time. I'm not advocating 10 hour sessions here but I mean time in the sense that they spend a long time playing almost nothing but that game seriously. Sure, there's guys like Clover-TAC but for the most part you look at the current world records coming out and there are no guys getting huge scores across several games. It's all guys improving on scores in games they've been playing for years. Even look at the best players here, guys like x91 and Prometheus, they sure as hell didn't get their scores in a few weeks. Maybe you mainstream kiddies should think about that before you decide to crucify me for suggesting people focus on 1 shmup and nothing else.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:01 am 


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Gus wrote:
WTF they banned TLB? :cry:

Anyway I think the "everbody watches everybody" thing gets overplayed. While it definitely happens when I was there it was far more common to see guys just play 1 credit then get up and leave. Besides that there wasn't a whole lot of great playing to watch as the STG section of the arcades seemed pretty dead compared to rhythm and fighting game parts. Also while not many of the casuals here take advantage of it I don't see how a serious player is at that big a disadvantage through all the downloadable replays that are available.

I think the reason why they're so much better is simply time. I'm not advocating 10 hour sessions here but I mean time in the sense that they spend a long time playing almost nothing but that game seriously. Sure, there's guys like Clover-TAC but for the most part you look at the current world records coming out and there are no guys getting huge scores across several games. It's all guys improving on scores in games they've been playing for years. Even look at the best players here, guys like x91 and Prometheus, they sure as hell didn't get their scores in a few weeks. Maybe you mainstream kiddies should think about that before you decide to crucify me for suggesting people focus on 1 shmup and nothing else.
I think sinmoon plays more then one shmup doesn't he?
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:54 am 


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I'm not denying that there's guys who have the smarts and the natural talent to get big scores in a short amount of time but for the vast majority that's just not how it works. Besides that, while he's still clearly an excellent player most of his "world records" are in games barely anyone has invested serious effort into.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:05 am 



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drunkninja24 wrote:
I'd totally be up for an online "meet" of sorts sometime. I like the justin/twitch.tv idea, maybe set up a skype/vent chat and post a link to the individual's stream when they go for a run. Would be an interesting idea, especially since I do a lot of streaming on twitch myself anyway.


You could make a SHMUP community on Niconama and broadcast from there.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:54 am 


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I have to agree with Gus about the watching other people thing. If we take Casino as an example, it's often CHI who puts the best scores up, and it's because he comes in most days and he concentrates on one game until he's reached his goal with it (and because he's been playing shmups a long time in general). I watch him play a lot, and ask him how to do things and copy him, but I suck because I don't focus on one game and don't put the time in.

On the other hand I did get loads better at Garegga and go from never played Bakraid to (by this forum's standard) pretty high score on Bakraid in a couple of weeks after watching Icarus play a few credits of each, but I have a feeling those games are a bit of an exception with all the scoring "tricks" you can pull off.
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 Post subject: Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:41 pm 



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It's pretty cool watching people play at arcades. I've learned all kinds of crazy stuff watching players in Japan and Hawaii. I can't do most of the really crazy stuff because I just don't play enough, but I can remember certain things for when I do get better. One of the most amazing things I've ever seen was when some dude in Hawaii absolutely destroyed Strikers 1945 II 1CC (twice I think), then went on to do the same to Strikers 1945 III. My friend said the guy was Chinese; huge props to them! I've seen some of the crazy Cave shooting dudes in Tokyo, and the two Ikaruga girls EightOne (remember him?) has mentioned before. To be completely honest, it's pretty crowded and I hated standing in the same place for such long periods of time...

I've seen some replays from this site and other sites from time to time, though, and they're pretty crazy; some of the things these guys do are absolutely amazing.
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:21 am 


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Seriously:

http://ggpo.net/


From the site:

What is it?
GGPO is a networking library that game developers can use to add networked gameplay support to arcade style games. GGPO's latency hiding techniques give each player a gameplay experience that is nearly indistinguishable from playing with their friends locally, even against players around the world.

How does it work?
GGPO uses a peer-to-peer topology to run a complete copy of your game for each player, transmitting controller inputs over the network to keep these copies in sync. Each player's inputs are sent to their copy of the game without having to wait for their opponent's to arrive over the network.

If the simulations diverge, GGPO rolls back to the most recent accurate state, corrects the mistake, and jumps back to the current frame, all before the player can notice. This provides the illusion of lag-free gameplay.


How does it perform?
Thousands of gamers are already using GGPO to play classic, old school fighting games against opponents around the world. GGPO's latency hiding techniques maintain the illusion of lag-free gameplay even during intercontinental play.



So, basically you install Adobe Air and the GGPO client. (So if emulation isn't you bag, then GGPO isn't for you.)
Then you open up a few ports on your router.

Both players (or ALL the players) must have the ROM file for whatever game is desired.

You can watch, you can play.

It's been a while, so I forget how the lobby system works, but I'm 100% sure that you can observe a game in progress, while waiting your turn.

I'm really surprised that my post earlier garnered no responses.I figured you all would jump at the opportunity.
Bottom line is : GGPO isn't just for Street Fighter.

Check their site and judge for yourself.

(FYI, GGPO technology hit the "big time" in that it's the online play solution for the XBLA version of Final Fight \ Magic Sword. Drop in , drop out multiplayer. Pretty fuckin sweet. I dig it.)
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 12:28 am 


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Was that guy trying to trigger Cuilan's egg fetish?
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:44 am 


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Matskat wrote:
snip


As an aside to this, if you wish to play games on GGPO that do not have lobbies within the GGPO GUI, follow this guide:

http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=608.0;wap2

I have used GGPO to play DDP before, so I know Final Burn Alpha supports many shmups. If anyone is up for trying this out, let me know. I'll gladly make all the files needed (.zip and savestate files). Could be cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade halls of doom
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:17 am 


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GGPO is great for certain fighting games, but MAMEHub is better for the vast majority of MAME's emulated library not officially supported by it.

If anyone is interested in 2D shooter netplay I sure wish they would have a look at this thread...
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