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 Post subject: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:51 pm 


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Hot off my work on DoDonPachi Arrange, I've discussed with some people, and I am probably going to develop a Ketsui Arrange in the coming weeks. If you have any ideas, please post them here, and I'll consider them. All ideas are welcome (except stupid ones), so please let me know what you think would go well in a Ketsui arrange. There are no limits to what can be done!
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:54 pm 


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remove empty lock if possible

some sort of a 1 loop harder mode would be nice too


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:55 pm 


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Increase (double) ship and bullet speed. Remove empty lock if at all possible. Remove stupid suicide bullet loop and just increase the density of the enemies' regular bullet patterns. Remove retarded loop requirements.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:09 pm 



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Remove empty lock if it's possible.

Naut wrote:
Remove retarded loop requirements.


Stop getting hit!
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:17 pm 


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Erppo wrote:
Stop getting hit!


but how m i suppose to recude rank??????????

Having to perfect the first loop for a chance to practice the second is stupid.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:41 pm 


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increase shot power for both types.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:46 pm 


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Add more empty lock.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:01 am 


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More ship power less empty lock


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:04 am 


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Hyperds with pbullet cancelling!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:15 am 


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Patch for rom so PCB owners can join. 8)

These are my ideas for alternative PGM game modes copied from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36324&start=30

Ketsui:

Additional "arrange mode" with this mechanic:

Hold both A+C shot to raise rank (like DDP-DFK BL). At max rank (the voice ask you "are you ready?", everything fires like the second loop, but you get ONLY 5-chip (chip chain counter doesn't go down unless you let go of a shot button longer than 0.5 seconds). To use full auto at max rank, hold C and tap A. Only 1 loop, and to reach DOOM, a minimum of 300 million points (or whatever seems reasonable with the added 5-chip flow). Chip counter maxes out at 9999. 8)

ESPGALUDA:

Additional "Garegga mode" with this mechanic:

No laser, only full auto (on A). B-button is Barrier bomb (no charging always quick release). Game is always in Kakusei overmode, red bullets, but bullets start out as fast as "regular" mode. Guard barrier shows rank increase. Suicide resets rank. Rank is increased by firing and extends without dying. All enemies drop gold ingots. Bombing cancels all shots into gold. After each bomb, the Kakusei circle appears around player, after 1 complete turn player is awarded another bomb. Extends awarded every 1 million points. Gold counter doesn't max out at 1000. Music only plays the drum parts of the original soundtrack.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:31 am 



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Keep Yagawa garbage out of these, please.

If anything adding ESP II's Zeshikai to a Galuda Arrange would be cool.


And yeah, remove empty lock and more ship power. Or if not more ship power, a laser that actually works at the range shown.

I can't seem to find this DDP Arrange.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:36 am 


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Chaos Phoenixma wrote:
Or if not more ship power, a laser that actually works at the range shown.

I can't seem to find this DDP Arrange.


The laser gets shorter with every LOCK On of your helper ships. It's by design.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:40 am 


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Chaos Phoenixma wrote:
Keep Yagawa garbage out of these, please.


Too late: elements of Bakraid are already in Dodonpachi Arrange.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:47 am 


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Death Label. 1 life per boss, and you fight Double DOOM at the end.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:31 am 


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Chaos Phoenixma wrote:
Keep Yagawa garbage out of these, please.

Keep your garbage out of this, please.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:52 am 


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After Ketsui, how about a DonPachi Arrange with a full DDP chain meter added? It'd be interesting to see what full stage chains in that game would be like.

These hacks are badass, keep em coming!


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:20 am 


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Location: New Hampshire, US
Don't want to throw this thread off-topic, but if anyone can help me get DoDonpachi Arrange running in mame 0143u9 shoot me a PM. Everytime I try to run it I get a "rom or CHD missing" type error.

For Ketsui Arrange, i'd like to see chips give you bombs at a certain amount, then bombing grounded enemies converts all their bullets into 5 point chips or something. I like the idea of mixing more Yagawa into otherwise Yagawa-less games.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:27 am 


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I don't know much abotu Ketsui and the game is a little tough for me, so maybe anything to make the game a little easier? At least some sort of option or ship that makes it easier. Flame me all ya want.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:46 am 


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I thought Ketsui didn't have rank at all?

I'd much rather play the Ketsui "Fast Label" mod that someone posted about a few months ago than any of the suggestions made here so far.

However, start-at-second-loop mods of Cave games are always good in my book. It's too bad they don't have unlockable loops in any of their console ports.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:55 am 


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Ketsui Back Labels still the best i'd say. :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:38 am 


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I've always wondered someone put together an enjoyable system where you start with a multiplier and let the player focus on preserving it.

Something along the lines of, start the player with a multiplier of 5,000 which is applied to every enemy destroyed. Include suicide bullets like in the second loop; for every suicide bullet released reduce the counter by 3. (maybe with the seal range increased to make it more reasonable to prevent them on a regular basis)

Maybe someone has already done this and it sucks or doesn't really feel different.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:36 am 


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Zorator wrote:
I'd much rather play the Ketsui "Fast Label" mod that someone posted about a few months ago than any of the suggestions made here so far.


That was also me :-) I should upload the patch for that.

AntiFritz wrote:
Ketsui Back Labels still the best i'd say. :mrgreen:


Yet again, I made a patch for that too. I'll upload that one too.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:51 pm 


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Naut wrote:
Remove stupid suicide bullet loop

lrn2play.
No really, suicide bullets add an extra layer of complexity and they are really fun to dodge.

Naut wrote:
Having to perfect the first loop for a chance to practice the second is stupid.

Honestly if you can't perfect the first loop you have absolutely no business in Ura anyway. And if you want to practice it you have savestates and the port lets you start at the loop.
You should have no trouble meeting the Omote requirements.

Naut wrote:
double ship speed

Play Panzer? Panzer normal shot also wrecks shit.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:53 pm 



Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 389
Alongs ketsui takes away the loop requirement il be happy . Having such a blast with ddp arrange cant wait to see the next hacks .


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:20 pm 


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emphatic wrote:
ESPGALUDA:

Additional "Garegga mode" with this mechanic:

No laser, only full auto (on A). B-button is Barrier bomb (no charging always quick release). Game is always in Kakusei overmode, red bullets, but bullets start out as fast as "regular" mode. Guard barrier shows rank increase. Suicide resets rank. Rank is increased by firing and extends without dying. All enemies drop gold ingots. Bombing cancels all shots into gold. After each bomb, the Kakusei circle appears around player, after 1 complete turn player is awarded another bomb. Extends awarded every 1 million points. Gold counter doesn't max out at 1000. Music only plays the drum parts of the original soundtrack.


That sounds awesome. Please do !
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:11 pm 



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Here are my ideas for Ketsui.

Mechanics:
— definitely remove empty lock. Nobody's going to miss it;
— definitely make the ships a bit stronger, but not too much (think one power level perhaps? So that they start at level 2 and end up approximately one level stronger than originally);
— loop requirements should be more forgiving and probably tied to scoring rather than survival;
— don't power down the ship upon death and don't release the power items. It's unnecessary and doesn't hold any kind of significance in any respect.

Now for the actual scoring system. It turned out pretty heavily influenced by Futari BL, Ketsui Death Label, and Blue Wish Resurrection. Not very Yagawa-ish, but let's see if it makes sense anyway.

1. The score is generated by multiplying the enemy value with the overall counter value. The overall counter's value is determined by chips you pick up, combined wby their value.
2. Enemies and bosses bleed chips when shot with lock-shot. The exact condition is that the laser must be touching the enemy, and at least one pod should be locked onto it to avoid the KDL milking scenario, where you would milk a boss using the weak laser without ever locking the pods. The value of chips gained this way is always "5", but decreases rapidly with time; the farther it is from the ship the smaller it will become by the time they connect. The rate of chip generation should be damage-based to avoid scenarios where using an underpowered ship would be profitable.
3. When killed with normal shot the enemies would release singular chips like in the original; their value does not decrease with distance.
4. There is no stage counter. The overall counter goes above 9999, if possible. When it hits/rolls over 9999, chips are generated at 1.5x rate and lose their value at 0.5x rate, and enemies start shooting faster bullets, bosses including.
5. Large enemies cancel their own and surrounding bullets upon death into chips, the more bullets are canceled, the greater their value.
6. Death reduces the overall counter by 20%, bomb by 10%. Nothing else detracts from the counter.
7. Boss bonus is based strictly on stage counter to avoid the strong tie to survival. In either case if the counter is 9999 or more by the end of the boss fight (i. e., you've managed to carry your max rank through the fight) you receive an additional bonus, probably with fixed value.
8. Omote loop does not have suicide bullets. It has the same scoring system as outlined above. The requirement for it would be to hit 9999 on the overall counter on every stage (at least for a moment). At the end there is a toned-down version of Doom.
9. Ura loop has slow-moving suicide bullets that don't speed up in over-9999 mode, otherwise the same scoring system as Omote. The requirement for it would be to end every stage with 9999+ on the counter and die no more than once. At the end there's the full-power Doom.

How a high-scoring run would look like.
1. The player would attempt to destroy everything at as close range as possible. It shouldn't become as frustrating as in Futari BL Original since the chip system allows for several degrees of proximity so there's a comfortable risk/reward curve.
2. As soon as the counter rolls over 9999, the player can either continue pointblanking enemies for even more chips or back down a bit to offset the increase of enemy aggressiveness. There should always be a room for improvement.
3. When a large enemy enters the screen the player would stop shooting and let the enemy shoot its load (like sperm, except I mean bullets) before killing it. On the second loop there are more bullets to cancel, so that should aid in getting the counter to 9999.
4. On the Ura loop the player would also aim to have as many slow suicide bullets near the large enemies as possible before killing them, leading to even higher scores.

What problems with Ketsui and Ketsui X does this system address.
1. The steep survival curve of the original Ketsui. This game should be easier for raw survival due to incresed shot power and bullet canceling in places Ketsui didn't have.
2. The toned-down difficulty of Ketsui X. This game should be somewhat more challenging on the first loop due to bullets not being canceled all over the place, and significantly more challenging on the second.
3. The difference in scoring systems between the two loops of Ketsui.
4. More convenient difficulty management. While it would be more profitable to stay in over-9999 mode the entire time, one bomb can return the difficulty to the norm.
5. The amount of suicide bullets in the second loops. Now only Ura will have them and they won't be as bad (but they'll probably have more chances to trap you since they won't leave the screen so easily). The difficulty of the second loops will largely be managed by the usual difficulty increase and the counter satiation making bullets faster.
6. Maxing the score out should theoretically be as hard or harder than the original Ketsui.

Opinions?

[EDIT]
<Erppo> It seems like there wouldn't be much point in using the shot in this
<Erppo> Or should shot kills be multiplied too?
<moozooh> all kills would be multiplied but you would receive less chips for using shot
[...]
<Erppo> Things like enemies cancelling bullets aroung them sounds really complicated to do
<moozooh> that could probably be lifted from progear
<moozooh> it has the exact mechanic i was thinking of
<moozooh> which even allows explosion cancels to chain themselves into a stream in some cases
[...]
<moozooh> basically this arrange is bwr with a one-bit rank mechanism

I just hope the counter can be made to roll over 9999, as otherwise I'd need to think of a way to avoid the plateau at 9999.
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Last edited by moozooh on Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:40 pm 



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Posts: 1437
NTSC-J wrote:
After Ketsui, how about a DonPachi Arrange with a full DDP chain meter added? It'd be interesting to see what full stage chains in that game would be like.

They would likely be impossible. The gaps between enemies are sometimes pretty large.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:04 pm 


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Add a choice in the beginning of what version to play. (like the real ddp bl pcb)
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:23 pm 


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Anything except complicated bullet cancel mechanics.

Edit :
Definition of simple bullet cancel : negligible scoring increase from it, doesn't last longer than a few seconds, not so common, once or twice per stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Arrange
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:34 pm 


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Moozooh should seriously look into making his own doujin.


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