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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:41 am 


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Despatche wrote:
they're "supposed" to be working on deathsmiles iii


where did you hear that?


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:51 am 


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His uncle works at Cave.
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:05 am 


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I think you'll find it was his mates brothers uncle.
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:35 pm 


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Please explain me THAT > http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17880450 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edit : It look to be a glitch or something like that which maximize the chain at +999999999.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:51 pm 


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saidaioujou 1.5 confirmed anyone?
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:54 pm 


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I might be blind (judging by the glasses, I probably am), but what am I supposed to be seeing getting screwed up?

EDIT: LOL, just found it. Watch his score as he plays...
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<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
<Shepardus> whoever reached the fourth loop in zing zing zip is the modern day sisyphus


Last edited by trap15 on Sun May 20, 2012 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:55 pm 


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Location: Nantes, France
AntiFritz : Ahah, I tweeted the same thing about sdoj 1.5.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:06 pm 


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'So, the score can't be counterstopped, the bosses can't be milked, hypers are non-abusable, the enemy values don't get too crazy and the final boss doesn't give an excessive amount of points. It must be fine now, right?'

I'd like a video of Yagawa saying 'Ha-ha, bet you didn't expect this one!'
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:08 pm 


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back wrote:


lol, I called it! :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:08 pm 


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Yep i guess so xD A new master ver is in order.
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:09 pm 


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Also, some rank 20+ C-EX footage
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17880102

EDIT: Who could pay for reaction video of Ikeda & Yagawa watching that together?
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:28 pm 



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sven666 wrote:
lol, I called it! :mrgreen:


Yeah, I guess it would have been silly to expect them to make a fully functional game anymore.
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:32 pm 


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Cagar wrote:
EDIT: Who could pay for reaction video of Ikeda & Yagawa watching that together?


I d love to be at the office telling them the news myself :) Tsuneki s going to have a bad day trying to justify the need to make a new version... (but this is good, more sh3 ! This was not the very end after all)
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:37 pm 


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The trigger is the GP value being greater than 2147483647 (the maximum value for a signed 32bit integer).

My assumption is that their GP value code looks a little something like this:
Code:
int rate;
int gpval_thresh = SOME_NUMBER;
if((int32_t)gpval < gpval_thresh) { // gpval was implicitly casted to a signed integer, because SOME_NUMBER was defined as signed (since int is by default signed)
  rate = X;
}else{
  rate = Y;
}

rate_timer++;
if(rate_timer > rate) {
  score += (uint32_t)gpval / 100; // gpval is normally an unsigned int anyways
  rate_timer = 0;
}


This could easily be fixed by defining gpval_thresh as an unsigned integer. A very common mistake, and anyone could have made it, especially since not many people would expect the GP value to actually get that high.
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@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
<Shepardus> whoever reached the fourth loop in zing zing zip is the modern day sisyphus


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:05 pm 


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trap15 wrote:
The trigger is the GP value being greater than 2147483647 (the maximum value for a signed 32bit integer).


Nice.
Now they should let japs players on this version during few weeks, just for fun. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:04 pm 


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brokenhalo wrote:
Despatche wrote:
they're "supposed" to be working on deathsmiles iii


where did you hear that?


Retro Gamer interview.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:04 pm 


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back wrote:
Please explain me THAT > http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17880450 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edit : It look to be a glitch or something like that which maximize the chain at +999999999.


I can't get this to load.

Anyone else having it hang?


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:37 pm 


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Joined: 09 Mar 2011
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TonK wrote:
back wrote:
Please explain me THAT > http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17880450 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edit : It look to be a glitch or something like that which maximize the chain at +999999999.


I can't get this to load.

Anyone else having it hang?


It hanged for me in Firefox but loaded OK in IE.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:49 pm 



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
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I'd understand if it were some rare esoteric bug, but signed integers in the scoring system's central aspect? These people are incorrigible. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:52 pm 


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moozooh wrote:
I'd understand if it were some rare esoteric bug, but signed integers in the scoring system's central aspect? These people are incorrigible. :lol:

Honestly, that probably slipped in due to not caring/disabling warnings from the compiler. There was probably a "comparison between signed and unsigned integers" warning that they totally ignored, and thus it implicitly casted it to signed. We can't all be fault-proof :(


But we can be close by passing -Wall -Wextra -pedantic -Werror :wink:
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@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
<Shepardus> whoever reached the fourth loop in zing zing zip is the modern day sisyphus


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:11 pm 


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Posts: 160
Location: In a CAVE
Well... that s Cave hey ! always a little sloppy ... homemade cookies with imperfections xD

I think we can tell from that mistake (or perhaps it is just a side effect from something else...poor recycling of dfk code) that they were in a hurry to wrap up the binary for the location tests.

In the interview "Ikeda: For a time, there was a danger it wouldn't get finished."
That s consistent with the kind of bugs encountered xD
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:17 pm 



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 3722
Location: moscow/russia
Curiously, Touhou 12 had the same problem with its score counter (signed integer overflow at 2.147 billion), but thankfully it had tracked the score correctly internally, so it would appear right on the high score screen and replay menus and only break visually during the actual play(-back). Oh well, 1.5 it is then. I wonder if they'll use the opportunity to change any other aspects of the game the same way they did with DFK...
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:24 pm 


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moozooh wrote:
Curiously, Touhou 12 had the same problem with its score counter (signed integer overflow at 2.147 billion), but thankfully it had tracked the score correctly internally, so it would appear right on the high score screen and replay menus and only break visually during the actual play(-back). Oh well, 1.5 it is then. I wonder if they'll use the opportunity to change any other aspects of the game the same way they did with DFK...


Venturing slightly OT for a sec, what aspects did they change from DFK 1.0 to 1.5?


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:36 pm 



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Location: Finland
Muchi Muchi Spork wrote:
Venturing slightly OT for a sec, what aspects did they change from DFK 1.0 to 1.5?


Instead of the autobomb, the bomb ships had this silly system where the bomb items gave a full refill so you ended up with a ridiculous amount of bombs. The final attack had a safespot inside the pattern and the hypers seemed to be lot more powerful (there is a replay in super-play where the guy just effortlessly cancels Hibachi's opener with C-B). I have also heard they tweaked the score values of some enemies but I don't know any more about this.

Edit: One more detail I remembered. The 2-1 Ura midboss first attack was aimed and even spread, which means you could dodge it entirely by staying still. They changed it to odd in 1.5
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:39 pm 



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Yeah, the scoring system had a significantly lower cash-in in 1.0. Also, a minor thing, but type B and Strong styles became playable from the start (they had to be unlocked with a code in 1.0). Maybe there's something else I'm forgetting.
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:44 pm 


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Erppo wrote:
Yeah, I guess it would have been silly to expect them to make a fully functional game anymore.

People say things like this as if Guwange and Rade not getting full "fixes" didn't make them not broken. Sure, the counterstop is pretty minor, but from a playability standpoint I have a REALLY hard time seeing this as worse than the lack of boss timeouts.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:52 pm 


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trap15 wrote:
The trigger is the GP value being greater than 2147483647 (the maximum value for a signed 32bit integer).

My assumption is that their GP value code looks a little something like this:
Code:
int rate;
int gpval_thresh = SOME_NUMBER;
if((int32_t)gpval < gpval_thresh) { // gpval was implicitly casted to a signed integer, because SOME_NUMBER was defined as signed (since int is by default signed)
  rate = X;
}else{
  rate = Y;
}

rate_timer++;
if(rate_timer > rate) {
  score += (uint32_t)gpval / 100; // gpval is normally an unsigned int anyways
  rate_timer = 0;
}


This could easily be fixed by defining gpval_thresh as an unsigned integer. A very common mistake, and anyone could have made it, especially since not many people would expect the GP value to actually get that high.


Care to give us an explanation in christian please... I didn't get shit :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:01 pm 


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Muchi Muchi Spork wrote:

Venturing slightly OT for a sec, what aspects did they change from DFK 1.0 to 1.5?


1.0 plays more like DOJ with the lazer-countering mechanic, it is a better game then 1.5 in spite of its flaws if you ask me..

O. Van Bruce wrote:
Care to give us an explanation in christian please... I didn't get shit :lol:


sure, because jesus hates you :P
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:16 pm 


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Uploaded the latest SDOJ videos on youtube :
http://youtu.be/wfJQzRi6zGU
http://youtu.be/cHCi_7FhADo


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:18 pm 



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 3722
Location: moscow/russia
O. Van Bruce wrote:
Care to give us an explanation in christian please... I didn't get shit

Any number you define in a computer program can be signed (being a positive or negative) or unsigned (going from zero up, but never below zero). Since all numbers have limited "storage space", they max out at a certain value. In most cases such "storage space" is a multiple of 8 bit. Here's a simple table:
Code:
  size  max values  range (unsigned)             range (signed)
 8-bit         256          0 to 255                -127 to 128
16-bit       65536        0 to 65535            -32768 to 32767
24-bit    16777216     0 to 16777215        -8388608 to 8388607
32-bit  4294967296   0 to 4294967295  -2147483648 to 2147483647

If some number in your game breaks when reaching one of these values, it means there's not enough space for it to grow further, so it'll either freeze there, reset, roll over, or break something else. This is a very bad programming oversight, since these limitations are easily avoided by allowing more "storage space" for numbers that are expected to grow large.

The thing with signed integers in particular is that their max positive value is twice smaller than their unsigned counterparts: one of the bits is spent to store the sign. So if your scoring system never involves negative numbers at any point—this is usually the case with any shooter—you're just pointlessly cutting a number's max value in half by using a signed integer, making it easier to break.

In SDOJ's case, the system broke when GP value went over 21,474,836 (the actual number is probably divided by 100 as trap15 speculated, accounting for the "missing" two digits).
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Last edited by moozooh on Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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