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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:28 am 



Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 1290
Score systems that drop a full third of your score for a level by letting one enemy from the first wave go.

Related: continuing to play a massively disappointing game that doesn't live up to the hype at all in the hopes of justifying the $15 purchase.


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:34 am 


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I thought you had no reason to care about score
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RegalSin wrote:
Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:37 am 


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If your score is dropping that much from losing one multiplier count in the first wave you're doing something else wrong too; if you're doing the rest of the waves well you'll be getting up to x9 when you would have x10, or in hard x14 instead of x15, and that's before the multiplier caps out anyway. You'll probably have more fun and see more improvement in your scores if you don't worry too much about getting your runs perfect from the get go, and focus more on getting a higher score than on getting the highest score. Also, as with pretty much any multiplier-centric scoring system, score doesn't scale linearly with performance, try not to get the feeling that losing a big chunk of score means that the game is rating you much worse.
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NTSC-J wrote:
You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.

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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:03 am 



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Squire Grooktook wrote:
I thought you had no reason to care about score

My claim was that when you're more concerned about the score than actually playing the game then it means that you're not enjoying the game itself and it's probably a shitty game.

Nothing contradictory here at all.


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:09 am 


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But the score is part of the game?

In other words you could make the game better for yourself simply by not caring about the score.
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NTSC-J wrote:
You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.

1cc list | Twitch | YouTube


Last edited by Shepardus on Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:10 am 


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"A system that many of a game's players have no real reason to interface with is nothing but cruft."

-Sounds like you're saying all scoring/competition is bad if it's not about survival (ie Garegga).
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RegalSin wrote:
Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

Aeon Zenith - My STG.


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:35 am 



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Squire Grooktook wrote:
"A system that many of a game's players have no real reason to interface with is nothing but cruft."

-Sounds like you're saying all scoring/competition is bad if it's not about survival (ie Garegga).

So, what you're saying is that you agree with the opinion I stated on Eschatos in Steam chat? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:50 am 


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I don't see any agreement or disagreement there, just a direct quote from something you said earlier and a paraphrase of said quote.
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NTSC-J wrote:
You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.

1cc list | Twitch | YouTube


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:58 am 


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Yeah that was a direct quote, not an agreement, heheh.

Though to be fair, I agree with a few things. Like that a game shouldn't be judged entirely on score (leads to stagnation of game design when that's the only thing developers focus on. I miss Irem).
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RegalSin wrote:
Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

Aeon Zenith - My STG.


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:32 am 



Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 1290
I'm aware that you just quoted me. Let's try phrasing this as a syllogism:

Major premise: It is bad when a game has major mechanics that only effect score and not survival in any way, because those mechanics are cruft that a player who isn't interested in scoring has no reason to interact with.

Minor premise: Eschatos has major score mechanics that only effect scoring

Conclusion: The way Eschatos handles its "kill 'em all!" and speedkill mechanics fucking blows.

As for why I don't just play for survival: because survival play in the first level and a half is fucking mind-numbingly boring. And then the st 2 midboss cheap-shots me out with green nearly-instant lasers on a green background while I'm forced to focus my vision on my ship to micrododge.

Garbage game. Complete empty hype. Uninstalled.


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:56 am 


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I disagree with your major premise, on the grounds that I don't believe that a mechanic has nothing to add and doesn't belong if you aren't being forced to interact with it, or that a mechanic is cruft if someone happens to not be interested in it. What's the point of the music? I have no reason to interact with it for survival, might as well turn it off. What's the point of the bullets? I have no reason to dodge them if I'm not interested in surviving. Why am I playing a game and giving myself a challenge that I'm not being forced to go through, anyway? I have no reason to interact with this game other than that I want to.

Have you tried playing Time Attack mode? There's no multiplier system in there to ruin the game for you, and "score" is entirely time-based which ties directly into survival since the game ends if you run out of time.

And I honestly can't imagine how you have trouble seeing those green lasers outlined in red (unless you're red-green colorblind), and tunnel-visioning on your ship is pretty much the worst thing you can do in almost any shmup whether you're macro-dodging or micro-dodging. You make it sound like that section is literally impossible...
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NTSC-J wrote:
You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.

1cc list | Twitch | YouTube


Last edited by Shepardus on Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:03 am 


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Major premise is wrong though. Competing for higher scores creates excitement just as struggling for a 1cc does. If you can't feel it, oh well.

Obviously your mind just isn't prepared for the glory and hype that is Eschatos though. Come back when you've achieved enlightenment.

Image

Same with Alien Soldier lol.
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RegalSin wrote:
Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

Aeon Zenith - My STG.


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:10 am 



Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 1290
Buddha apparently had really shitty taste in games. Eschatos *and* Alien Soldier? WOW!


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:11 am 


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He's BIL, basically.
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RegalSin wrote:
Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

Aeon Zenith - My STG.


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:15 am 



Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 1290
Figures that Buddha would embrace the Brutal Doom heresy instead of following the one true path of -complevel 9.

Guess the Hindus were right about him.


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:16 am 


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:lol: I am very happy with the way this convo has turned out.
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RegalSin wrote:
Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

Aeon Zenith - My STG.


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:48 am 


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Joined: 24 May 2013
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Shepardus wrote:
Jonst wrote:
Not so much a shmup grievance, just a grievance... Almost cleared ddp dfk arrange in front of a live audience... Got the final boss down to mm, and had my highest ever scoring run. Thought I had a hyper I stock... I didn't. :|

There should be an "I ALMOST DID IT" thread for things like this. :P



That list would be a lot bigger than my actual 1cc list in my case!
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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:40 pm 


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An almost list? Be a couple of Cave games on there..
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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:54 pm 


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Strikers 1999 not getting a home conversion is no longer a grievance.
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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:14 pm 


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After the release of these crappy Otomedius games, it's clear that Gradius series are truly dead.

Spoiler: show
Ask Capcom to buy the IP, that's your "generation game" right?
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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:49 am 


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The Stone Like
The Score Killer
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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:33 am 


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Health bars. Fuck every one of em outside of 1943/Kai.


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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:40 am 


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The 360's d pad on pc. Just terrible.

I may have found a way to get my hrap to work though..
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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:49 pm 


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Every Extend Extra. Can't even get past first one. Either time limit or out of extends.

edit:

Funny! Finally managed that...when sat playing for 5 mins not expecting anything. %)


Last edited by qmish on Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:19 pm 


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E,614,220 - Plasmo - ALL - Bornnam (ABC)

E,605,750 - ERM - ALL - Bornnam (ABC) [PCB]

Dem feels.
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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:35 pm 


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Why don't you try hard? :wink:

(ps. holy shit)
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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:12 pm 


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Almost breaking 5 million in Under Defeat.

Then two days later losing your last ship in the EXACT SAME FUCKING SPOT WITH THE SAME SCORE. :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:30 pm 


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^ that is annoying mate, but 5 mil will happen. I don't doubt it for a second...
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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:22 pm 


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Thanks Jonst.

I was especially salty since I started the loop with no lives and no missed everything up to the 2-4 boss.
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 Post subject: Re: The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:46 am 


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what i'm like when playing Batrider Advanced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3WeXGmqYsE

Edit: Also, man Raiden IV Overkill doesn't let you practice the bullshit fairy bonus stage. Can only select the regular stages for practice mode, ffs.
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