shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:03 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 245 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Deinterlaced Mushi PS2 (and Ibara)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:14 am 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 420
So, I got bored and decided to find out if this was actually feasible. I've managed to do it, but it achieves nothing of interest. If I could fix the filtering I might be onto something, but that will take 100x more work. It's >30 degrees C here and the cooler is broken, so I'd rather drink beer and play games.

Whether or not the display is interlaced is controlled by the CRTC (CRT controller). It is initialized by the running program. It's possible to patch the program so it will make the CRTC to run in deinterlaced mode. This is what I've done.

I was hoping the deinterlaced display would at least fix the weirdness you get when scrolling horizontally (in tate mode - moving along the screen's short axis) - scrolling left and scrolling right feel very different. Unfortunately, it didn't work. The deinterlacing seems to cause it to alternate between the even and odd lines of the image, so the image distorts somewhat as it scrolls. It's only really noticable in the background in either video mode. It fixed that particular problem, but introduced another equally bad one.

Anyway, the patch:
Change:
Code:
01 00 24 32 ff 00 45 32

to
Code:
00 00 04 20 ff 00 45 32


and
Code:
01 00 24 32 04 00 06 a6

to
Code:
00 00 04 20 04 00 06 a6


I leave the actual method of patching to you, as I can't think of any that don't involve copyright infringement. It might be possible with some sort of cheat device, but I can't find anything on how to create the codes. It's not the sort you're likely to go to hell for, but it's still illegal. Again, in the end this doesn't do anything useful unless you have a fetish for scanlines. It doesn't make the game any more fun to play.

(The code is MIPS machine code, if you're interested. If you want to see how it actually works read Dreamtime's PS2 programming tutorials and mess around with the code. Knowing MIPS assembly will help immensely.)

[EDIT]
The same strings work on Ibara. The results are somewhat better. The lack of interlacing seems to make the filtering more apparent.
_________________
弾もまたいで通る


Last edited by ReKleSS on Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:22 am 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 13077
Location: Chicago
So I assume you patch this and play a copy on a PS2? That's interesting that you pulled it off. Too bad it didn't have the effects one would want. I wonder what really entails making a game compatible in both interlaced and deinterlaced modes.
_________________
RegalSin wrote:
New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:28 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 3700
Location: Almere, Netherlands
I think it is great that you at least tried it.
Better luck next time


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:16 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 420
GaijinPunch wrote:
So I assume you patch this and play a copy on a PS2? That's interesting that you pulled it off. Too bad it didn't have the effects one would want. I wonder what really entails making a game compatible in both interlaced and deinterlaced modes.


If you interlace something with sharp lines you get annoying flickering, because those sharp lines disappear or change every sceond frame. The effect is most obvious comparing, say, the wii browser to the X background or some warez intros. If you want a good interlaced/deinterlaced display you need a suitable filter to go with it.

The other possible complication is the way the image gets to the display. I suspected the CRTC would pull the data from only the top half of the framebuffer - I was surprised when it displayed properly, taking only alternate lines. There's another CRTC setting that controls that, and I didn't touch it.
_________________
弾もまたいで通る


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:51 am 



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 26
Well, I desperately need to change some games into interlace mode. Is there are easy way to do it? I want to change video mode in some emulators for PS2: Snes station, PGen and NeoGeoCD. And there is several games, which kills my eyes - Disgaea 1-2, Dodonpachi DOJ (arcade mode), ICO.

ReKleSS, please, help me. I have big problems with deinterlaced videomode, it gives headache to me. Developing the patches for abandoned freeware console emulators doesn't involve copyright infringement, i think.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:53 am 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 4414
there are video processoers you cane use to deinterlace mame ect. i have 2 of em, pretty cheap if you find one on ebat ect. i payed no more than 60.oo

it has vga in and rgb/component out. the extron emotia series. it has a *240p* mode on it.
_________________
Quote:
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:49 am 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 420
AVT wrote:
Well, I desperately need to change some games into interlace mode. Is there are easy way to do it? I want to change video mode in some emulators for PS2: Snes station, PGen and NeoGeoCD. And there is several games, which kills my eyes - Disgaea 1-2, Dodonpachi DOJ (arcade mode), ICO.

ReKleSS, please, help me. I have big problems with deinterlaced videomode, it gives headache to me. Developing the patches for abandoned freeware console emulators doesn't involve copyright infringement, i think.


If the sources are available it shouldn't be too bad... otherwise I don't really want to. Just get an xbox for those things. Converting games into interlaced mode is a problem - the framebuffer is most likely only 240 lines, so there's nowhere to get the missing detail from. If lack of interlacing is giving you a headache you probably need a better TV.

Strider77: I don't think any drivers in mame output interlaced video... anyway, that's all postprocessing stuff. It's taking the two half-frames, interpolating it and dropping half the lines. What's the point?

On another note, there's a product, the Xploder HDTV that sounds like it forces the PS2 to output 480p. Since Mushi and Ibara appear to be rendering to a full-height framebuffer I imagine this should have decent results. Anyone tried it?
_________________
弾もまたいで通る


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:50 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 13077
Location: Chicago
TATE games played in Yoko will be interlaced (on an AVGA).
_________________
RegalSin wrote:
New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:51 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 1887
Location: Denver
The Emotia series take VGA video and convert it to 480i OR 240p, that is they deinterlace after interlacing the video. ;) It actually works really well with MAME if you fix your output to 640x480 without using any type of filtering, as it's just throwing away extra lines. It's not as good as running MAME in true low res on a real monitor, but it comes close. Also, you can get AdvanceMAME (and probably a few other builds) to output interlaced video, which is useful if you have, say, a 15khz monitor and you want to run Asteroids on it.

I tried using the Emoita on Mushi and Ibara -- you have to use an upscan converter on the video first to convert it to VGA -- and the results were better than just running them normally, but still didn't look great thanks to the filtering. Probably looks slightly worse than patching the game. I tried a few other 2d games as well: Metal Slug Anthology and Street Figher Alpha Anthology looked terrible, whereas Capcom Classics Collection looked pretty damn good (except for some of the older games like Black Tiger, which for some reason use heavier filtering than the rest of the pack).
_________________
Image
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deinterlaced Mushi PS2 (and Ibara)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:47 am 


User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 2808
Location: Egret 29, USA
Here are PPF patches for Ibara and Mushi
free registration required:
http://www.eurasia.nu/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=6046&ttitle=CAVE_PS2_Deinterlacers


ReKleSS wrote:
[EDIT]
The same strings work on Ibara. The results are somewhat better. The lack of interlacing seems to make the filtering more apparent.


for Ibara, all I see is improvement with this hack. nice work. a diagonal line is a diagonal line, not a saw tooth like the retail. less flicker too. did you ever try it on Raiden III? it's a no-go with Gradius V.

i took some pictures, what's a good place to post them, anyone?


Last edited by antron on Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:50 am 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 420
I use imageshack.us , there's also photobucket.com and a few others. I tried getting photos of mushi, but I couldn't get them to come out right... come to think of it, I should probably have been using 1/30, not 1/60.

Edit: OK, got some 1/30 (2 frames) pictures from Mushi.
Title screen, before:
Image

Title screen, after:
Image

Level 1, before:
Image

Level 1, after:
Image

Those second two shots didn't turn out to well, reco's moving horizontally in the first and vertically in the second. Look at the background instead.
_________________
弾もまたいで通る


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:36 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10386
Location: Germany
Slightly OT, but nevertheless: have you ever fooled around with the HDTV Exploder bootdisc ? Aleanil was able to run Mushihimesama with it, which I never could and I'm still wondering what I did wrong.

Here are the threads:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... light=hdtv

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... light=hdtv


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:44 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 2808
Location: Egret 29, USA
from the Ibara pause screen. you can see this throughout the game, pun not intended ;) This is Tate with RGB.

Image

Image


Last edited by antron on Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:53 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 1941
Location: Ukraine; Yalta
Guys, we need tutorial >_>
_________________
Caravan\Time Attack list


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:52 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 2808
Location: Egret 29, USA
P_HAT wrote:
Guys, we need tutorial >_>


I just ripped the disc to an ISO file on my PC.
Opened the ISO with a hex editor.
Used find and replace function for the two strings.
Saved changes.
Burned new ISO.

I can make a PPF patch file that can be more easily applied.


ReKleSS, are your pictures Yoko or Tate, Composite or RGB?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 3700
Location: Almere, Netherlands
Wow, the difference is great.
This is awesome news!
So now we can make bad ports better? Awesome!
Keep up the great work. The pictures were excellent and I could see a huge difference. I can imagine how much of a difference it will make when playing!
Fudoh wrote:
Slightly OT, but nevertheless: have you ever fooled around with the HDTV Exploder bootdisc ? Aleanil was able to run Mushihimesama with it, which I never could and I'm still wondering what I did wrong.

Here are the threads:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... light=hdtv

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... light=hdtv
Yeah, wondering about that too and the matrix modchip and stuff. Some is explained, but I'm a bit confused.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:34 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 2808
Location: Egret 29, USA
D wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
Slightly OT, but nevertheless: have you ever fooled around with the HDTV Exploder bootdisc ? Aleanil was able to run Mushihimesama with it, which I never could and I'm still wondering what I did wrong.

Here are the threads:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... light=hdtv

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... light=hdtv
Yeah, wondering about that too and the matrix modchip and stuff. Some is explained, but I'm a bit confused.


I think that stuff is for VGA, right?


Last edited by antron on Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:40 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 3700
Location: Almere, Netherlands
antron wrote:
I think that stuff is for VGA, right?

Yeah you are right. Sorry for casuing confusion. I'm just very excited about all of these non-standard ways to have a better gaming experience/better pq quality! A site should be made with alll of these techniques/ways to do these things.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:54 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10386
Location: Germany
It would be interesting nevertheless to use both since the usual deinterlacers have quite a hard time with these two Taito conversions.

@antron

the Hexteditor I use can't handle the Ibara iso (too large). Can you tell me which Hex editing tool you've used ?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:52 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 2808
Location: Egret 29, USA
Fudoh wrote:
@antron

the Hexteditor I use can't handle the Ibara iso (too large). Can you tell me which Hex editing tool you've used ?


one of the free ones with Ubuntu, KHexEdit
I was quite shocked that it could handle it.

WinHex will do it, but the free trial version might not.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:22 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10386
Location: Germany
Thanks ! Googled around and found the 30-days trial of HEX TOOLBOX to handle the files well. If anyone wants to try it in Windows XP, the info might come in handy.

If anyone wants to patch Ibara, the neccessary bytes can be found quite at the bottom of the file, so searching the file backwards speeds up things alot.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 1941
Location: Ukraine; Yalta
Well, i'm suck, and just never used hex editor >_>
I think i must read manual D:
_________________
Caravan\Time Attack list


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:08 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 13077
Location: Chicago
Now you just need to figure out how to turn off the filtering and those ports would be manageable.
_________________
RegalSin wrote:
New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 3227
Location: Hawaii
GaijinPunch wrote:
Now you just need to figure out how to turn off the filtering and those ports would be manageable.


Yeah. Mushi would be playable for me then, but not Ibara. The total lack of slowdown in that one kills the game completely.
_________________
http://www.cave-stg.com


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:35 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 3244
Location: Phoenix
GaijinPunch wrote:
Now you just need to figure out how to turn off the filtering and those ports would be manageable.

Yeah, I thought that's what this thread was initially... :(
-ud
_________________
Righteous Super Hero / Righteous Love


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:10 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 420
antron wrote:
ReKleSS, are your pictures Yoko or Tate, Composite or RGB?


The game's set to tate, but the monitor's still horizontal. Connection is RGB.

Filtering is another problem entirely. This was fairly easy because it's set through a system call - it's a pair of instructions that exist only to change video modes, so it's easy to search for and mess with. Filtering is set in packets that get get built up then transmitted to the video chip, so I'd have to actually understand what a fair portion of the code is doing. I'd still like to try it, but it will be much, much harder.

btw, the tool I used was HxD. I tried various linux ones, but none of them knew how to not hold the entire file in memory, which caused problems.
_________________
弾もまたいで通る


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:09 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 81
Hi

I have applied the mentioned low res fix to the mushi iso , and tried to run it in pcsx2 (ps2 emu). Unfortunatly the fix doesnt work in the emu and it's still running interlaced . Any idea if there is any way to get it to work in pcsx2 ?
Other low res games like ddp doj run fine in low res , eliminating the need for deinterlacing

Image

mushi refusing to switch to progressive after hex editing

Image

no problems with other games


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:26 am 


User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 2808
Location: Egret 29, USA
General Martok wrote:
no problems with other games


you tried other games?
what other games did you try?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:39 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 81
No I wasn't hexing any other games , what I meant were games which nativly run in progressive mode like ddp doj and espgaluda . Now I'M wondering why mushi doesn't work after the fix (only talking about pcsx2 here , it works on my ps2)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:28 am 


User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 802
how did you disable the filtering in DOJ? it looks blurry as crap on my pcsx2. also, does mushi run fullspeed for you? the only ps2 cave game that is fullspeed for me is doj. mushi is ALMOST fast enough but not quite :( intel core 2 duo e4300, geforce 7800 gs agp, 1gb ram


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 245 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aisha, Bing [Bot], Ebbo, Google [Bot] and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group