An IGN reviewer plays a SHMUP... :)

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:01 am

i dont know dude.. nobody at IGN plays shooters and the DEFINETLY dont do it on arcademachines feeding quarters into the slot...

D · Post by D » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:02 am

Great how he looked around and the the closup of the coin toss.

you should post it on a IGN forum (if such a thing even exists)

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:48 pm

To 2CC a game is pretty impressive but I highly doubt that anyone at IGM can do that.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:29 pm

Yeah, a 2CC on a first try could be pretty impressive. I'd say frames 2-7 on that cartoon should be repeated about 20 times for good measure.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:46 pm

I usually can't get past the 15CC mark, but I'm getting there!

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:36 am

Most IGN reviewer scores would likely end in the dreaded telltale "9" showing that they went apeshit on the continue button. You probably should put a closeup of the game's score with something like 21209 or some other ridiculously low score ending in a 9.

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:34 pm

I don't think the problem with mainstream gaming magazines is that they aren't good at shooters, but rather that they don't seem to see any value in well thought-out gameplay mechanics.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:11 pm

Well, the fact that the media thinks that every shooter is incredibly hard to the point of being unbeatable, even moderate manics like Castle Shikigami 2, doesn't help show them in a good light. And if they think a game is unplayably hard, naturally, they also wouldn't put any time into differentiating the gameplay.

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:22 am

Meh, IGN reviewers should just go back and play their crappy Halo and GTA games and leave the shmup reviews to the real players.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:25 am

Ganelon wrote:Well, the fact that the media thinks that every shooter is incredibly hard to the point of being unbeatable, even moderate manics like Castle Shikigami 2, doesn't help show them in a good light. And if they think a game is unplayably hard, naturally, they also wouldn't put any time into differentiating the gameplay.

I remember all too well one steaming pile of gross horseshit EGM put in a review of Giga Wing: "Often can't avoid death".

In the EGM office, they were probably saying "Reflect Force- BOMB! Reflect Force- BOMB! Reflect Force- oh shit, look at all these bullets, can't RF now- what the fuck, no bombs left? I'm dunzo." Odds are good that they didn't see the true final boss.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:40 am

I like the comic, but I think more accurately, it could be inserting many many credits, and then at the end, write the text as "got through the game on my first try" since "on one credit" implies these guys have a clue about arcade games..

Anyway, about the score display... I picked up a Gunforce PCB today, and no matter what I do, if I play a single credit, my score ends in a 1?? WTF??

...I also credit-fed just to see the game, and my score ended in 25

GunSpike · Post by **GunSpike** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:37 am

Good comic. I think that describes not only most mag/web reviewers, but also the vast majority of gamers.

You also have to remember that a lot of gamers today didn't start playing games until they were 'cool' (thanks MTV and Playstation), so they don't have the concept of what a true video game is. Just a bunch of sissy gamers that abuse the credit button or turn on the cheat codes (GTA anyone?). At least we still know what a good game is, right?

King Slime · Post by **King Slime** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:34 am

FatCobra wrote:Meh, IGN reviewers should just go back and play their crappy Halo and GTA games and leave the shmup reviews to the real players.

Right. Um...San Andreas and Halo are awesome. So...die or something.

Anyway...moving on to the subject of the thread.

IGN Scores
G-Darius 8/10
R-Type Final 8.1/10
R-Type Delta 8.3/10
R-Type DX 8/10
Gradius Collection 8.1/10
Ikaruga 8.3/10

Seems to me they don't have anything against shmups. Hell, an 8/10 is a good score.
When reviewers say a game might be too hard, they usual do that to inform casual gamers. You think a casual gamer is going to like Pulstar?
Christ, I can understand someone being turned away from shmups just because of how hard they can get. Fuck guys...look at R-Type2.
I mean, of course, I love shoot 'em ups too, but it's aimed towards an audience of gamers that just CRAVE for a severe asskicking.

Can someone show me a link on IGN where they claim a difficult shmup to be easy and lack innovation?
Because they pretty much said Ikaruga was damn hard.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:52 am

On that note i'd like to add - I've earned the police ship in Einhander but i never got past stage 4 in Ikaruga and from my memory most magazines liked that game. In other words, Ikaruga the devil.

But i do understand where some of these arguments are coming from. Did anyone here happen to catch Retro's 'Definitive' Gradius article last month?

Really, i always try to look at things on an individual basis rather than punishing the masses for the sins of the few. It all comes down to the particular reviewer.

Still, the comic was funny.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:49 pm

D wrote:Great how he looked around and the the closup of the coin toss.
you should post it on a IGN forum (if such a thing even exists)

On the contrary, I'm constantly living in fear that my beloved Forumplanet is going to start using the IGN system

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:20 pm

King Slime wrote:
FatCobra wrote:Meh, IGN reviewers should just go back and play their crappy Halo and GTA games and leave the shmup reviews to the real players.
Right. Um...San Andreas and Halo are awesome. So...die or something.

Anyway...moving on to the subject of the thread.

IGN Scores
G-Darius 8/10
R-Type Final 8.1/10
R-Type Delta 8.3/10
R-Type DX 8/10
Gradius Collection 8.1/10
Ikaruga 8.3/10

Seems to me they don't have anything against shmups. Hell, an 8/10 is a good score.
When reviewers say a game might be too hard, they usual do that to inform casual gamers. You think a casual gamer is going to like Pulstar?
Christ, I can understand someone being turned away from shmups just because of how hard they can get. Fuck guys...look at R-Type2.
I mean, of course, I love shoot 'em ups too, but it's aimed towards an audience of gamers that just CRAVE for a severe asskicking.

.

Yes they are good scores but do you think that a mainstream reveiwer would ever consider giving one a really good score or rank one of them up with more mainstream games no because as whole they view it as a lesser genre and the only reason that they give them good scores is because their nostalgic not because their good games or anything like that. I don't know why people can't understand that a good game is a good game it doesn't matter when it was made or what type of game it is,Everyone seems to think that all 2-D games need to have a nostalgic connection to the player for them to be enjoyed which is defenently not
the case.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:50 pm

Dale wrote:Everyone seems to think that all 2-D games need to have a nostalgic connection to the player for them to be enjoyed which is defenently not the case.

I wonder, how often do game reviewers fall back on that cliche when reviewing new shmups, instead of retro game compilations (where you can argue with it, but it's still a valid comment to make about some shmups)..?

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:59 pm

King Slime wrote:
FatCobra wrote:Meh, IGN reviewers should just go back and play their crappy Halo and GTA games and leave the shmup reviews to the real players.
Right. Um...San Andreas and Halo are awesome. So...die or something.

I agree that GTA: San Andreas and Halo are good games, but the mainstream gamers worship them too much or something, and that pisses me off. I guess I'm just a raving fanboy hater.

I'm kinda glad shmups are a niche genre now, remember in the late 80's and 90's where arcades and controls were littered with medicore clones and ripoffs? (Oh wait, that happens today, just with gansta games, car-stealing games, underground racing games, FPS's and other non-shmup bullshit. A gamer will never be happy I guess).

What I hate about modern day games however is the push for "dirty realism," you know, urban ghetto settings and super-rendings of football player's asses. What happened to wacky levels that make no sense to an archietect (Mega Man anyone?), but made sense gameplay wise? What happened to crazy power ups that made you shoot fireballs? WHAT HAPPENED TO BRIGHT BLUE SKIES AND BRIGHT COLORS!?! I'm tired of this dark deariness, bring back the flashy 80's!

EddyMRA · Post by **EddyMRA** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:13 pm

FatCobra wrote: I agree that GTA: San Andreas and Halo are good games, but the mainstream gamers worship them too much or something, and that pisses me off. I guess I'm just a raving fanboy hater.

I'm kinda glad shmups are a niche genre now, remember in the late 80's and 90's where arcades and controls were littered with medicore clones and ripoffs? (Oh wait, that happens today, just with gansta games, car-stealing games, underground racing games, FPS's and other non-shmup bullshit. A gamer will never be happy I guess).

What I hate about modern day games however is the push for "dirty realism," you know, urban ghetto settings and super-rendings of football player's asses. What happened to wacky levels that make no sense to an archietect (Mega Man anyone?), but made sense gameplay wise? What happened to crazy power ups that made you shoot fireballs? WHAT HAPPENED TO BRIGHT BLUE SKIES AND BRIGHT COLORS!?! I'm tired of this dark deariness, bring back the flashy 80's!

I hate to be an ass, but I am getting sick and tired of this bitter nostalgia mindset, FC. They are just VIDEO GAMES, not life. Gamers' tastes change over time. You're talking about a twenty year span of time. A whole damn generation.

Stop living in the past already and stop putting down people who actually LIKE Halo, GTA, Need for Speed, and its ilk. Yes, I find the dirty realism themes of today's games too forced and gimmicky, but that's change, and I welcomed it. Learn to live with it, or just go back to your old games.

For your nostalgia needs, you have New Super Mario Bros, which actually makes the Fire Flower once again the best powerup in the game. Your old games are still around. They are not taken away. Brush off the dust from your NES and SNES and play those games, or fire up an emulator.

Finally, stop infusing every single thread with your bitter nostalgia rant. We don't need you reminding us about how games of today don't sit right with you a million times a day.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:31 pm

FatCobra wrote: What I hate about modern day games however is the push for "dirty realism," you know, urban ghetto settings and super-rendings of football player's asses. What happened to wacky levels that make no sense to an archietect (Mega Man anyone?), but made sense gameplay wise? What happened to crazy power ups that made you shoot fireballs? WHAT HAPPENED TO BRIGHT BLUE SKIES AND BRIGHT COLORS!?! I'm tired of this dark deariness, bring back the flashy 80's!

He's right about that most definetly. Today's games lack alot of the stylishness the old stuff had. Gears of War is the closest looking thing to Forgotten Worlds we've seen in years. Chaos Legion kinda had it goin' on like Legendary Wings - too bad it sucked. Now when you think about what i just said you're like, "What?"

Exactly. That's how unfantastical things have gotten.

I wanna see something like Kid Niki or Goemon in 3d on the new hardware. This Final Fight Streetwise crap really pushed it to far. Capcom lost some cool points for that. Apparently someone there doesn't give a rats ass about thier characters or thier fans. I suppose it's the same guy that approved Megaman X 7 and 8.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:50 pm

The only problem here is you guys can't be bothered to dig around and find the games for current gen that are what you want (and they ARE there). You just blindly stumble around screaming HALO and GTA all fucking day, and it is annoying.

Oh sure, it isn't a problem for the older systems, because all of the shit has been washed away (aka forgotton), or nostalgia rears its ugly head.

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:52 am

I'm glad the essential dumbness behind much of this thread finally got called out. There is a happy medium to be found between "nostalgic shooter maniac" and "modern hardcore gamer," and some people here seem to be stuck in the old days a bit too much. I'm as nostalgic for old games as anyone, but I don't let my undying love for the classics turn me into a crotchety old parody of a gaming veteran. (At least I hope not!) To resort to a cliche, it's all about balance.

Megaman X8 is pretty decent, by the way. Polygons and all.

King Slime · Post by **King Slime** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:00 am

Dale wrote:
King Slime wrote:
FatCobra wrote:Meh, IGN reviewers should just go back and play their crappy Halo and GTA games and leave the shmup reviews to the real players.
Right. Um...San Andreas and Halo are awesome. So...die or something.

Anyway...moving on to the subject of the thread.

IGN Scores
G-Darius 8/10
R-Type Final 8.1/10
R-Type Delta 8.3/10
R-Type DX 8/10
Gradius Collection 8.1/10
Ikaruga 8.3/10

Seems to me they don't have anything against shmups. Hell, an 8/10 is a good score.
When reviewers say a game might be too hard, they usual do that to inform casual gamers. You think a casual gamer is going to like Pulstar?
Christ, I can understand someone being turned away from shmups just because of how hard they can get. Fuck guys...look at R-Type2.
I mean, of course, I love shoot 'em ups too, but it's aimed towards an audience of gamers that just CRAVE for a severe asskicking.

.
Yes they are good scores but do you think that a mainstream reveiwer would ever consider giving one a really good score or rank one of them up with more mainstream games no because as whole they view it as a lesser genre and the only reason that they give them good scores is because their nostalgic not because their good games or anything like that. I don't know why people can't understand that a good game is a good game it doesn't matter when it was made or what type of game it is,Everyone seems to think that all 2-D games need to have a nostalgic connection to the player for them to be enjoyed which is defenently not
the case.

Waka waka waka
http://www.gamespot.com/search.html?typ ... &x=37&y=11

He wasn't basing it on nostalgia. He said the game was awesome.

Everyone loves Viewtiful Joe and as far as I know...that's not nostalgic...and it's 2D.

One of the Guilty Gears games on GS received around a 9/10 when it was a time when 2D fighters were considered dead.

"Yes they are good scores but do you think that a mainstream reveiwer would ever consider giving one a really good score"
I've seen Radiant Silvergun score 9/10 all the time and even once a 10/10

King Slime · Post by **King Slime** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:06 am

FatCobra wrote:
King Slime wrote:
FatCobra wrote:Meh, IGN reviewers should just go back and play their crappy Halo and GTA games and leave the shmup reviews to the real players.
Right. Um...San Andreas and Halo are awesome. So...die or something.
What I hate about modern day games however is the push for "dirty realism," you know, urban ghetto settings and super-rendings of football player's asses. What happened to wacky levels that make no sense to an archietect (Mega Man anyone?), but made sense gameplay wise?! What happened to crazy power ups that made you shoot fireballs? WHAT HAPPENED TO BRIGHT BLUE SKIES AND BRIGHT COLORS!?! I'm tired of this dark deariness, bring back the flashy 80's!

And again, Viewtiful Joe. Wacky levels and shit didn't any sense at all while the gameplay was just as ridiculous and fun.
Hell, look at Sly Cooper and Jak and Daxter.
Not all games were happy go lucky like back in the 80s and early 90s...Castlevania?

King Slime · Post by **King Slime** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:34 am

Alluro wrote:
FatCobra wrote: I agree that GTA: San Andreas and Halo are good games, but the mainstream gamers worship them too much or something, and that pisses me off. I guess I'm just a raving fanboy hater.

I'm kinda glad shmups are a niche genre now, remember in the late 80's and 90's where arcades and controls were littered with medicore clones and ripoffs? (Oh wait, that happens today, just with gansta games, car-stealing games, underground racing games, FPS's and other non-shmup bullshit. A gamer will never be happy I guess).

What I hate about modern day games however is the push for "dirty realism," you know, urban ghetto settings and super-rendings of football player's asses. What happened to wacky levels that make no sense to an archietect (Mega Man anyone?), but made sense gameplay wise? What happened to crazy power ups that made you shoot fireballs? WHAT HAPPENED TO BRIGHT BLUE SKIES AND BRIGHT COLORS!?! I'm tired of this dark deariness, bring back the flashy 80's!
I hate to be an ass, but I am getting sick and tired of this bitter nostalgia mindset, FC. They are just VIDEO GAMES, not life. Gamers' tastes change over time. You're talking about a twenty year span of time. A whole damn generation.

Stop living in the past already and stop putting down people who actually LIKE Halo, GTA, Need for Speed, and its ilk. Yes, I find the dirty realism themes of today's games too forced and gimmicky, but that's change, and I welcomed it. Learn to live with it, or just go back to your old games.

For your nostalgia needs, you have New Super Mario Bros, which actually makes the Fire Flower once again the best powerup in the game. Your old games are still around. They are not taken away. Brush off the dust from your NES and SNES and play those games, or fire up an emulator.

Finally, stop infusing every single thread with your bitter nostalgia rant. We don't need you reminding us about how games of today don't sit right with you a million times a day.

Damn dude, that was awesome

EddyMRA · Post by **EddyMRA** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:27 am

King Slime wrote:Damn dude, that was awesome

Someone had to say it. Been carrying on and on and on like a broken record regarding his sectarian mindset since last year. People have been telling him to cease since then. For crying out loud, twenty years. That's longer than a majority of today's gamers are old!

If the worst of his problems are that video games today don't suit his tastes anymore and his mom sold his SNES, he should consider himself lucky. Just the past six months, I've gone to Captain's Mast, put on twenty days of ship restriction, endured a verbal battering from inept superiors in the Navy, fought back numerous suicide attempts, got into a car accident, had over $2000 of DVDs which took me two years to collect stolen from me, gone from $4500 surplus to almost no money, got discharged from the Navy, lost my $400 iPod, had someone who owes me $400 lose contact with me, endure my parents undergoing marital problems, AND had to struggle for the past MONTH trying to find a job and find a place to live after getting out of the Navy. Yet, I took all of this much better.

You want problems? Try living in my shoes and see if you can survive even a day. The hell I had to endure gave me a firm grasp on reality and life, and I will be dwelling over petty things like "old games versus new games" or "shmups don't get respect from the mainstream" no more. I am 29 years old. Life is too short for shit like that.

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:55 pm

Yeah, I think the thing to do is get ahold of an early 90s gaming mag, and realize that the crap level (or at least games-you-want-to-play level) is really about the same. I guess new complaints could include more bugs and such as games get so complex, and the whole games-aren't-movies thing (welcome back, FMV era =)). But probably the biggest difference is that now the games we tend to play here aren't what everyone else is playing...

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:58 pm

Alluro wrote:
King Slime wrote:Damn dude, that was awesome
Someone had to say it. Been carrying on and on and on like a broken record regarding his sectarian mindset since last year. People have been telling him to cease since then. For crying out loud, twenty years. That's longer than a majority of today's gamers are old!

If the worst of his problems are that video games today don't suit his tastes anymore and his mom sold his SNES, he should consider himself lucky. Just the past six months, I've gone to Captain's Mast, put on twenty days of ship restriction, endured a verbal battering from inept superiors in the Navy, fought back numerous suicide attempts, got into a car accident, had over $2000 of DVDs which took me two years to collect stolen from me, gone from $4500 surplus to almost no money, got discharged from the Navy, lost my $400 iPod, had someone who owes me $400 lose contact with me, endure my parents undergoing marital problems, AND had to struggle for the past MONTH trying to find a job and find a place to live after getting out of the Navy. Yet, I took all of this much better.

You want problems? Try living in my shoes and see if you can survive even a day. The hell I had to endure gave me a firm grasp on reality and life, and I will be dwelling over petty things like "old games versus new games" or "shmups don't get respect from the mainstream" no more. I am 29 years old. Life is too short for shit like that.

Wow, that's rough dude, and I feel humbled. I don't know why I preach this crap, maybe I'm just mad that things ain't what they used to be and I need to get over it. As I can remember, Mario and Zelda were worshipped back then as GTA and Halo are now. I miss the good old days, but I guess that's what emulators are for.

Good luck finding a job, I know how rough it is trying to find a job. How did you get discharged from the Navy?

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:27 am

Good recovery, Mr. Cobra.