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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:46 am 


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Wait, you're having trouble with DFK's final boss with two lives to spare? Got you covered.
I have this very deep strategy called "bomb and laser inside of her". Bear with me: when you bomb, you're invincible, right? Well, nothing stops you from moving your ship inside the boss (or above, however you want to describe it) and shoot your laser. The laser deals much, much more damage if you point blank. As soon as the bomb runs out, move away and repeat, unless she's about to change phase. It's the final boss, so, unless you care about scoring, you have no reason to not waste them.
You shoule be able to kill her in 5 or 6 bombs, so in a "full" life. Try it in practice mode like I did, it works wonders.

It's almost cheating, I know.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:06 am 



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AxelMill wrote:
Wait, you're having trouble with DFK's final boss with two lives to spare? Got you covered.
I have this very deep strategy called "bomb and laser inside of her". Bear with me: when you bomb, you're invincible, right? Well, nothing stops you from moving your ship inside the boss (or above, however you want to describe it) and shoot your laser. The laser deals much, much more damage if you point blank. As soon as the bomb runs out, move away and repeat, unless she's about to change phase. It's the final boss, so, unless you care about scoring, you have no reason to not waste them.
You shoule be able to kill her in 5 or 6 bombs, so in a "full" life. Try it in practice mode like I did, it works wonders.

It's almost cheating, I know.


The boss is fine. Getting past the BS to get to her is harder.

But yeah, I knew about the point blank technique. Thanks though.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:27 am 


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ardiel wrote:
Well the problem is being able to see everything. Literally. Like some stuff becomes invisible to me. I can't learn how to avoid it if I can't see it.

Take comfort in the fact that you're far from the first person to lament their inability to notice easily-dodged bullets. I don't think any great shmup player is paying attention to all the bullets. Most of them aren't any better at multitasking than any average person. The trick isn't to see all the bullets, it's about seeing only the ones that matter. If you find yourself getting killed by "stray bullets" a lot, it's not enough to resolve to pay more attention to those, there's usually also something you're paying attention to that doesn't warrant that attention. Or your route needs adjusting so there isn't the threat of stray bullets.

You can try to move in such a way that you're not dealing with multiple threats at once. To take a simple example, on Utsuho's last spell in Subterranean Animism there are bullets radiating outwards from the center as well as bullets getting sucked towards the center, but you can stop moving vertically to let yourself get sucked in with the bullets moving inwards, which allows you to dodge the outwards-moving bullets without paying attention to the inwards-moving ones. Then move back to dodge the inwards-moving bullets without any threat from the outwards-moving bullets. Rinse and repeat. It's been a while since I played DFK but I think you can do something similar with the laser wheels to avoid dodging multiple wheels at the same time, or bullets and lasers at the same time. For many other patterns with bullets moving in different directions you can move along with one group while dodging the other group, then take on the first group on your own terms. Even when the bullets are all moving in the same general direction you can usually group them and get past each group proactively rather than reactively so you can stop paying attention to them.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:30 pm 



Joined: 29 Jun 2016
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Shepardus wrote:
ardiel wrote:
Well the problem is being able to see everything. Literally. Like some stuff becomes invisible to me. I can't learn how to avoid it if I can't see it.

Take comfort in the fact that you're far from the first person to lament their inability to notice easily-dodged bullets. I don't think any great shmup player is paying attention to all the bullets. Most of them aren't any better at multitasking than any average person. The trick isn't to see all the bullets, it's about seeing only the ones that matter. If you find yourself getting killed by "stray bullets" a lot, it's not enough to resolve to pay more attention to those, there's usually also something you're paying attention to that doesn't warrant that attention. Or your route needs adjusting so there isn't the threat of stray bullets.

You can try to move in such a way that you're not dealing with multiple threats at once. To take a simple example, on Utsuho's last spell in Subterranean Animism there are bullets radiating outwards from the center as well as bullets getting sucked towards the center, but you can stop moving vertically to let yourself get sucked in with the bullets moving inwards, which allows you to dodge the outwards-moving bullets without paying attention to the inwards-moving ones. Then move back to dodge the inwards-moving bullets without any threat from the outwards-moving bullets. Rinse and repeat. It's been a while since I played DFK but I think you can do something similar with the laser wheels to avoid dodging multiple wheels at the same time, or bullets and lasers at the same time. For many other patterns with bullets moving in different directions you can move along with one group while dodging the other group, then take on the first group on your own terms. Even when the bullets are all moving in the same general direction you can usually group them and get past each group proactively rather than reactively so you can stop paying attention to them.


Sounds good, thanks. Do you know any games that are meant for training? I have Moedan but it seems too easy, but maybe I just haven't played the right cards since I haven't played all of them. All the ones I played were kind of ridiculously easy though.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:20 pm 


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There's a program called YGS2000 (just Google for this, I don't think there's an official site/download still around) that lets you practice dodging a bunch of different patterns with adjustable difficulty, including many from well-known CAVE games up to Mushihimesama. There's also Danmaku Simulation 296 which has a bunch of "lessons" teaching different techniques (all in Japanese, but it comes with a demo playthrough of each lesson so there's still value in it if you don't know Japanese). I like rRootage and parsec47 too, since they've got lots of encounters with a wide range of difficulties. parsec47 puts you in a series of randomly generated stages with mechanics and speed heavily inspired by Dangun Feveron. rRootage puts you against series of bosses, with modes for "normal" danmaku ship style, Psyvariar-style, Ikaruga-style, and Giga Wing-style. Most of the bosses in rRootage are fixed but the far-right column of levels is randomly generated.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:35 pm 


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Any one know if in hishou zame the longer you survive the faster the bullets get?. At a few seconds in level 3 when not losing any 1ups or bombing I could swear the fire rate from enemys goes up


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:19 am 


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Yes hishouzame has survival rank.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:23 am 


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Cheers trap I thought this may be the case, thanks for clearing that up


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:12 pm 


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Is there a physical copy of a border down superplay?
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:36 pm 


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Jonst wrote:
Is there a physical copy of a border down superplay?


Nothing official.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:56 pm 


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^ I thought as much...
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:17 pm 



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Shepardus wrote:
There's a program called YGS2000 (just Google for this, I don't think there's an official site/download still around) that lets you practice dodging a bunch of different patterns with adjustable difficulty, including many from well-known CAVE games up to Mushihimesama. There's also Danmaku Simulation 296 which has a bunch of "lessons" teaching different techniques (all in Japanese, but it comes with a demo playthrough of each lesson so there's still value in it if you don't know Japanese). I like rRootage and parsec47 too, since they've got lots of encounters with a wide range of difficulties. parsec47 puts you in a series of randomly generated stages with mechanics and speed heavily inspired by Dangun Feveron. rRootage puts you against series of bosses, with modes for "normal" danmaku ship style, Psyvariar-style, Ikaruga-style, and Giga Wing-style. Most of the bosses in rRootage are fixed but the far-right column of levels is randomly generated.


Thanks for those. After using YGS2000 to isolate stuff, I think my vision is just bad. Actually I know my vision is bad but apparently it's bad enough to effect my playing.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:53 pm 


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How does the scoring in RefRain: Prisim Memory work? I get the basic system of chaining bullet cancels with specials for combos, but I have no idea what's going on with the multipliers/medals/etc.

I've been working under the impression that more level 4 combos = better. But I don't know if I should be popping those off for random zako waves or saving them for bosses/minibosses, etc.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:53 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
How does the scoring in RefRain: Prisim Memory work? I get the basic system of chaining bullet cancels with specials for combos, but I have no idea what's going on with the multipliers/medals/etc.

I've been working under the impression that more level 4 combos = better. But I don't know if I should be popping those off for random zako waves or saving them for bosses/minibosses, etc.

I know that there is some pointblanking for scoring going on with bigger coins being dropped on enemy death the closer you are when you kill them, also there's a bonus for speedkilling bosses, which stretch out to skipping entire phases by stunning them with your LV4 combos and killing them before the stun runs out
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:13 am 


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How does rank in Gradius III (arcade) work? Anything worth paying attention to?
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:43 am 



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Seahawk put together this post a few years back:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42968
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:16 pm 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
Seahawk put together this post a few years back:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42968

Thanks for that. So no time-based component... that means that subsequent deaths while trying to recover doesn't lower the rank any further.

While we're at it, do you know if there's any difference in the rank systems of Darius Gaiden and Darius Gaiden Extra?
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:17 pm 


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Anyone else noticed lag in the Sega Saturn release of Gubird? I've recently bought it and I definitely notice it. Am I imagining it?


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:49 pm 


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Anyone else really dislike OverKill mode in Raiden IV? I hate how overkillable dudes create cover for everything behind them.

Good news is that the other modes don't pull that crap. Bad news is many of the achievements are directly tied to OverKill. :|
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:22 am 


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Anyone know anything about an SNES shmup called "Zone", from developer Wani?

Image

Hard to find info on it, but it at least appears to exist.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:26 am 


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Any one knows (especially trap) does Ketsui Arrange 1.7 (and Mr. Stoic Ver) has some alterations of enemy/boss bullet patterns?
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:57 pm 


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Mr. Stoic only removes the chip system.

Arrange modifies patterns based on rank, but none of it is different from (possible) patterns in the original.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:17 pm 


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Just got Shienryu for SS. It doesn't seem to save high scores when turned off. Is that everyones experience who has the game?


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:48 pm 


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I don't have the Saturn version, but perhaps your system needs a new save battery?
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:00 pm 


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It might just flat out not save data. Gekirindan on Saturn doesn't.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:45 am 


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Sorry for the dull tech question, but I've recently picked up a PS3 and can't get the version of Gradius V from the online store to run in 60hz. It just cuts back to the display selection screen after a second of attempting to. I've tried changing some of the console's display settings, but nothing has influenced this. Any ideas? (The TV I'm using at the moment is an LG 32LC46.)


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:44 am 


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Has anyone ever 1CC'd Giga Wing without using the reflect at all? The hitbox is quite small, so you'd think it'd be doable, and a no-miss no-bomb to stage 5 is well within reason. But at stage 5, you run into tanks and those sperm shaped battleships that fire enormous amounts of spam that has to be streamed and is too dense to cross over and you suddenly start launching bombs like crazy...

The final bosses are probably doable, but that TLB has some insanely dense attacks that only do you have to fully dodge, but you also take much longer to kill because you aren't reflecting it all back.

My best was getting to the Stage 6 boss so far.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:10 pm 



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Not sure if this is shmup related, nor do I know if I asked this before. But why do the terrorists in the Lethal Enforcers, Virtua Cop, and Time Crisis series all wear ski masks, gas masks, or sunglasses?


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:23 am 


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xxx1993 wrote:
Not sure if this is shmup related, nor do I know if I asked this before. But why do the terrorists in the Lethal Enforcers, Virtua Cop, and Time Crisis series all wear ski masks

They're called balaclava's, they're just useful for masking your face aside from the mouth and eyes

Quote:
gas masks

the cops might use things like tear gas, or the terrorists might spread some toxic gas and don't want to get affected by it themselves

Quote:
sunglasses?

cuz it looks cool
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:05 pm 



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Yeah, but every light gun game has these kinds of enemies dressed up like this. Operation Wolf 3 took it up to eleven by having the terrorists not only wearing gas masks, but also neon bright colored jumpsuits. They look like rejected Power Rangers or janitors if you ask me. I also saw an enemy in the Data East light gun game Locked 'N Loaded dressed in scuba gear for whatever reason.


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